Are these badges correct?

Hello ,

I was recently looking through some photographs from El Alamein War Cemetery and something caught my eye. The graves of two South Staffs Yeo ,or rather the badge on their headstones? I`m no expert on cap badges (or anything else for that matter ) but those crowns above the headstone badges are `Queens` rather than `Kings` which would have been more relevant for WW2 wouldn't they or have I missed something here ? Not nit picking just wondering?


Kyle

 

Does this clarify ?

http://www.flagsforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=1121

Ron

 

Hello Ron,

Thanks for the reply but I`m still puzzled those crowns are definitely Her Majesty QE 11 rather than His Majesty GV1 .I`ve put a WW2 cap badge for comparison

Thanks

Kyle

 

Hello Owen,

Yes the badge I posted seems to be a `fantasy` badge as Ron has posted the QE2 version which is completely different to the WW1 and WW2 issues ? I wonder if `original` (Not replaced) headstones had different crowns after all when they were erected the Queen was yet to come to the throne? I have found one of those South Staffs Regt Headstones too with the correct crown.

Thanks

Kyle

 

The Staffs Yeomanry badge should indeed have a king's crown on it, I have one and it's definitely got the King's Crown on.

They've obviously given the wrong design out as a template.

 

Just thinking out loud, but is it possible that there is confusion about the actual Regiment on the various headstones mentioned in this thread? Some relate to the ''South Staffordshire Regiment' and others to the 'Queens Own Royal Regiment Staffordshire Yeomanry'....in which case is it the reference to 'Queens' that dictates the style of crown used? Circumstantial I know, but Kings have Queens but, as in the case of our current Monarch, a Queen does not have a King!

 

No. There are very few regiments that kept a Queen's crown when there was a king or vice-versa.

In fact the only one I can think of off the top of my head is the Queen's Own Rifles of Canada, but there are bound to be a couple of others.

The Staffordshire Yeomanry (Queen's Own Royal Regiment) would have had a King's Crown in WW2, following tradition.

 

Hello Everyone who has responded to this a big thank you ,I will give it until after the weekend and send the photographs off to the CWGC and see what their explanation is ? This isn't obviously confined to the two headstones I originally published so if it is a mistake will they own up to it?

Thanks

Kyle

 

Kyle,

i have enjoyed reading this thread and am intrigued. I look forward to hearing what CWGC have to say.

Best wishes

Steve

 

Not sure if this is of use but i found it whilst searching online
http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=RKA7AwAAQBAJ&pg=PT57&lpg=PT57&dq=staffordshire+yeomanry+wore+victorian+crown+cap+badge&source=bl&ots=ezH75JIk6D&sig=kjksi18d1ItONud0i7pvGuZCn8Y&hl=en&sa=X&ei=evx0U6-YMsGOO9nQgIAH&ved=0CEIQ6AEwAg#v=onepage&q=staffordshire%20yeomanry%20wore%20victorian%20crown%20cap%20badge&f=false

 

Spotter! I do believe you have hit the nail on the head! Two patterns one official one preferred ....Thank you.

Kyle

 

I found this an interesting thread also, but who decides which crown is put on the headstone? CWGC? The regiment? or family of the deceased?

 

It is supposed to be the sealed pattern of the regimental cap badge and nothing else.

Interestingly, the only photos I have of the Staffs Yeoman did appear show the King's Crown version...

It might be worthwhile asking the Museum?

 

Bugger. I just went to prove myself right and ended up confusing matters more.... Here is the 'Official' pattern for Staffs Yeoman, as noted by Ron in post 2, but this shows the K/C and not Q/C.

Anyway, I'm going to guess that this is was not fully checked by CWGC as they probably asked the regiment to pass over the design for use on the headstone...and got the more popular Q/C badge design.

 

The attached two photographs are from the British and commonwealth Military Badge Forum http://www.britishbadgeforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1809&page=3
The Picture where they are belting up ammunition was taken in october 1942 at El Alamein, the other was taken on 7th June in Normandy, You can see the Queens Crown worn in both photographs

 

Excellent find spotter!

 

I may be mistaken, but as far as I am Aware, the CWGC have a large book with all Official Cap Badges and templates for machining them as all are done now by NCC (Numeric controlled Computer), technique.

If it is not correct I Imagine that a new template will be issued and when the headstones are in Need of replacement, the new template would be applied.

Regards
Tom

 

This is one of the images I have...