AoS 28 & the 4th Division

Discussion in '1940' started by Bob42100, Mar 26, 2011.

  1. Bob42100

    Bob42100 Member

    Looking through past threads I noticed the mystical AoS 28 get discussed. It is something that has had me puzzled for a long time. It appears on Carriers and the Light Mk VIB and only those with the modified sprocket and track. At least the one Carrier photo shows 4th Division insignia and only some of the tanks also show 4th Division while others show no formation. If it is 5th Royal Inniskilling Dragoon Guards which was 4th Division Calvary then why not the normal Divisional Calvary AoS of 2? Could it be an oddity because all of the tanks were the modified type? I once thought that perhaps it was the Light Armoured Reconnaissance Brigade then GHQ AoS 117 & 118 started showing up which might be more likely to be LARB.

    In other threads I saw people looking for the Mk VIB's with 4th Division insignia and here is what I have. On COMMANDER you can see it on the front left fender, I put expanded close ups except for the last photo where it is clear as day. I can also show clear photographs with no Divisional insignia which adds to the mystery.

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  2. idler

    idler GeneralList

    Assuming they are 5 RIDG, could 28 have been a temporary code allocated by 3 Div to whom they were attached for the advance to the Dyle? Having two units bearing 2 could have been a recipe for confusion despite the different formation signs.

    According to 5 RIDG, though it had been thought about before, 2 LARB was formed when the campaign was underway so there may have been little opportunity to update AoS plates.
     
  3. May1940

    May1940 Senior Member

    These are excellent high res pictures. I think there is a lot of evidence that 28 is 5 RIDG. Also that 116 is East Riding Yeomanry. (Rolfi indicated he believed both these identities in his earlier posts.)

    Looking at 117: this number can be seen on a tank that was purportedly knocked out crossing the Blaton to Ath Canal. According to Philson Vol 5 page 47, this was a sector defended in some hard fighting by 1st Fife and Forfar Yeomanry on 19th May. 1FFY was the second unit in 1st Armoured Reconnaissance Brigade after 1 ERY. The same account notes that the brigade HQ had no tanks of its own. This points quite strongly to 117 being 1FFY - in spite of earlier pictures of the unit, when attached to 51st Highland Division, showing an AoS of 2 together with 51st Highland's stag's head formation sign.

    Andrew
     
  4. Bob42100

    Bob42100 Member

    Andrew, Today a friend emailed me with this passage in the BT White book:

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    So far for AoS 117 I have found photos of:
    LION
    PHEASANT
    TAPIR
    PANDA

    LION does not show the AoS but the serial is close to the others and they seem to still have the shipping stencils painted on which indicates recent arrivals.

    I would say it is safe to put these as the 1st FFY.

    The 28 still raises questions. I cannot see them changing AoS plates so just not to confuse with another Calvary. The war diaries are often complaining of shortages for plates and other materials. So far every Mk VIB with 28 is the modified sprocket and track and I wonder if it has any significance with the markings.
     

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