Ancestry Help required on F/L Brian Herbert Evans (MiD) One of the Great Escapers Executed.

Any help would be appreciated.

There were (5) Australians who were in the Great Escape and sadly all of them were executed.

I have some details on this lad who was also executed/murdered and would like to know if there is anything on Ancestry about him or his parents who were living in Australia.

Possibly some emigration details (Passenger lists) or similar information on the family.

In Memory of
Flight Lieutenant BRIAN HERBERT EVANS
Mentioned in Despatches

42745, 49 Sqdn., Royal Air Force
who died age 24
on 31 March 1944
Son of Herbert and Dorothy May Evans, of Manly, Brisbane, Queensland, Australia.
Remembered with honour
POZNAN OLD GARRISON CEMETERY

Geoff,

F/L Brian Evans was British born,having being born in the county of Devon on 14 February 1920.

Whether his parents were settled in Australia at the time of his death and he joined the RAF as an Australian,I do not know.

His service number would provide detail of his recruitment to the RAF.His service number at the time of his death would be one allocated to commissioned airmen and would be different to his initial service number which would have been allocated to him when he joined the RAF,I am assuming, as an uncommissioned airman.


Good to hear that as I could find nothing else on him to prove or disprove that he had taken citizenship or remained a British subject or why or when the family moved to Australia.

I have tried a couple of other areas to no avail. Your born in Devon information does not seem to be anywhere on the net.

He received his aviators certificate #17,016 on 7/2/1939 from Cardiff Aerodrome Club

Of the 200+ "Australians" in the RAF, there were a number born in Britain and living in Australia with their families so I have listed them with an Australian connection.

Another Great Escaper was listed as British but was born in Sydney. This is not evident on most sites on the net. Flight Lieutenant Thomas B. Leigh

Born: 21st February 1915
Nationality: British
Unit: 76 Squadron, RAF
Service No: 46462
POW No.: 63
Recaptured: near Sagan
Last seen alive: 12th April 1944
Hopefully there is a little more info around on Evans movements since 1920.

 

Geoff, some bits and pieces available.

His father Herbert Evans was a British Army Captain, and had was of welsh origin, living at some point at 7 St. Peter Street, Cardiff, Glamorgan, Wales.

His mother was Dorothy May Fletcher,

At the time that he received his aero cerificate his profession was listed as a Surveyor.

His parents married in wales in june 1919.

No Immagration details im afraid

 

Geoff, a little bit more.

Herbert Evans, was born in Cardiff on 25th Sept 1880 and died in Manly, Queensland on 1st Oct 1960, aged 80.

There where two sons, Brian and Noel John Evans

The original info on Brians Mother being born in Cardiff would appear to be wrong, as she would appear to have been austrailian. She left Brisbane for the UK in 1919 to marry Herbert in Cardiff.

She is then shown as being back in Austrailia by 1954, when she was living at 121 MtJoy Ter Manly Wynnum, Moreton, Queensland, Australia with her son Noel John.

In 1935 when her mother died she was still listed as living in the UK

 

Geoff,

I was unable to find anything in the emigration files, nor in the Passenger lists on FindMypast.

I did find the Aero Club Certificate for Brian:






Don't know if that helps at all?

Mark

 

Here is Dorothys arrival in the UK for 1919

Name: Miss D N Fletcher
Birth Date: abt 1893
Age: 26
Port of Departure: Sydney, Australia
Arrival Date: 30 Apr 1919
Port of Arrival: Liverpool, England
Ports of Voyage: Colombo
Ship Name: Nestor
Search Ship Database: View the 'Nestor' in the 'Passenger Ships and Images' database
Shipping Line: Alfred Holt & Company
Official Number: 135456

 

His parents married in wales in june 1919.

Perhaps I'm being oversensitive but, as a general principle, best beware overstating the accuracy of data lest it mislead! As you quote no date within June, I deduce you're referring to the Civil Registration indices which were only quarterly back then - June being a common misnomer for the 2nd (April-June) Quarter merely ending in June and far more accurately abbreviated Q2. As June 1919 to 16 Feb 1920 is only 8±½ months (ahem) let's just say the earlier half of Q2 might be nearer the truth as carrying no social stigma.

And I guess you just generalised Cardiff Registration District to Wales. So, just FTR while I have them up on my browser, here are FreeBMD's marriage record pages for Herbert & Dorothy. Oh yes, and finally Brian's 1920 Q1 birth registration.

Rgds, Steve

 

Thank you Phil and Mark.

Solid info thank you.

The mother being Australian and the NOK details listing Manly Queensland would be the reason for the confusion however he is half an Aussie.

The parents must have moved back to Australia pre/during the war as the Australian address is listed on the Brians NOK details. Yes/No?

Cheers

Geoff

 

Thank you Phil and Mark.

Solid info thank you.

The mother being Australian and the NOK details listing Manly Queensland would be the reason for the confusion however he is half an Aussie.

The parents must have moved back to Australia pre/during the war as the Australian address is listed on the Brians NOK details. Yes/No?

Cheers

Geoff

Geoff, I cant trace when the family moved back to Oz, as i suspect that they went by air. When Dorothy came to the UK in 1919, she travelled 1st class so I dont think that there was a shortage on Money.

It is possible that he is listed as Capt Evans, rather than Herbert Evans.

The addresses, come from the Australian Electoral Roles. Noel Evans was an Estate Agent in 1968.

Phil

 

Perhaps I'm being oversensitive but, as a general principle, best beware overstating the accuracy of data lest it mislead! As you quote no date within June, I deduce you're referring to the Civil Registration indices which were only quarterly back then - June being a common misnomer for the 2nd (April-June) Quarter merely ending in June and far more accurately abbreviated Q2. As June 1919 to 16 Feb 1920 is only 8±½ months (ahem) let's just say the earlier half of Q2 might be nearer the truth as carrying no social stigma.

And I guess you just generalised Cardiff Registration District to Wales. So, just FTR while I have them up on my browser, here are FreeBMD's marriage record pages for Herbert & Dorothy. Oh yes, and finally Brian's 1920 Q1 birth registration.

Rgds, Steve

Thank you for the info Steve.

Cheers

Geoff

 

Re immigration, maybe someone with full Ancestry access can please help us by checking out a possibility I've turned up in a free search pointing to their 'Victoria, Australia, Assisted and Unassisted Passenger Lists, 1839–1923' card collection - EVANS arriving Brisbane Tue 10 Apr 1923 (Herbert, Grace S & Dulcie). Only turning up one other likely sibling for Brian afer 1919, 2-yrs-younger Noel J, I'm exploring the possibility of Grace & Dulcie being unrelated and Herbert having gone ahead alone to establish himself before bringing out his then-young family - they arriving after the collection's 1923 cut-off.

And re Brian's then-supposed repatriation, a 1935 ±5 search of Ancestry's 'UK Incoming Passenger Lists, 1878-1960' card collection throws up a Liverpool possibility arriving Mon 15 Apr 1935. NB: Other EVANS on Brian's ship were Fred & Nessa L but, as I hinted before, the surname is very common.

Finally, disregarding CWGC's implying him to have been a bachelor, I found a possible 1939 Q2 marriage of a Brian H EVANS to a Mabel M BAKER in Whitchurch RD - possibly begetting David H EVANS rather soon after (1939 Q4) in Shrewsbury RD.

Steve

 

Re immigration, maybe someone with full Ancestry access can please help us by checking out a possibility I've turned up in a free search pointing to their 'Victoria, Australia, Assisted and Unassisted Passenger Lists, 1839–1923' card collection - EVANS arriving Brisbane Tue 10 Apr 1923 (Herbert, Grace S & Dulcie). Only turning up one other likely sibling for Brian afer 1919, 2-yrs-younger Noel J, I'm exploring the possibility of Grace & Dulcie being unrelated and Herbert having gone ahead alone to establish himself before bringing out his then-young family - they arriving after the collection's 1923 cut-off.

And re Brian's then-supposed repatriation, a 1935 ±5 search of Ancestry's 'UK Incoming Passenger Lists, 1878-1960' card collection throws up a Liverpool possibility arriving Mon 15 Apr 1935. NB: Other EVANS on Brian's ship were Fred & Nessa L but, as I hinted before, the surname is very common.

Finally, disregarding CWGC's implying him to have been a bachelor, I found a possible 1939 Q2 marriage of a Brian H EVANS to a Mabel M BAKER in Whitchurch RD - possibly begetting David H EVANS rather soon after (1939 Q4) in Shrewsbury RD.

Steve

Wonder if they left as a family before the war and Brian returned at some stage on his own?

Cheers

Geoff

 

Wonder if they left as a family before the war and Brian returned at some stage on his own?

Yes that's presactly my hypothesis - largely stemming from this wildly speculative scenario theorising the whys & wherefores behind Brian's itinerant family roots (merely brainstorming so don't laugh):

• Captain Herbert saves Digger's life in WW1
• Grateful Digger offers saviour his daughter's hand in marriage
• Dorothy sails to Blighty to tie the knot but starts getting homesick
• Dad sails off to Oz and calls mum & the boys over when ready
• Brian gets homesick and returns to dad's home town

If Brian returned, age 15, then it's a fair bet it was back to remaining family (paternal uncle?) where he established himself as a surveyor. The best public keys to that family background are the 1881-1911 censuses.

On another tack, you might not be surprised to learn we're not alone in our quest. The owner of this unsourced Ancestry Public Member Tree ('December 2011 - 2') should prove a useful ally. As their findings are curiously awry from ours, it may prove mutually rewarding to try and make contact. My guess is that they're not immediate family accepting Chinese whispers as truth but this is what I can see for free:
* Brian Henry EVANS
* Birth: 14 Feb 1920, Devon, England
* Death: 25 Mar 1944, Germany
* F: Herbert EVANS
* M: (Name Unknown)
NB: For anyone looking and wondering, they also have a couple of older Private Member Trees ('October 2009_2009-10-10' & 'october2011_2011-09-19_01') probably best ignored

Lastly, if I may summarise our findings so far, I'm a great fan of nutshelling info into an overview timeline to help spot patterns & anomalies - thus:

• 1880-09-25 - Herbert b. Cardiff
• ? ---------- Herbert at 7 St Peter St, Cardiff
• 1881-04-03 - Herbert not in census ?
• 1891-04-05 - Herbert in Cardiff (census)
• 1893~ ------ Dorothy May FLETCHER b. Oz ? (** 1919 pass. list as Dorothy N **)
• 1894 Q2 ---- Dorothy Gertrude M FLETCHER b. Cardiff
• 1901-03-31 - Herbert not in census ?
• 1911-04-02 - Herbert not in census ?
• WW1 ? ------ Herbert a British Army Captain
• 1919 ------- a shopkeeper Herbert EVANS listed in Dunsford (Kelly's Devon directory)
• 1919-04-30 - Dorothy N arr. Liverpool (Nestor from Sydney via Colombo)
• 1919 Q2 ---- Herbert (38) = Dorothy (~26) (m. reg. Cardiff RD)
• 1920 Q1 ---- Brian H EVANS b. reg. Newton Abbott RD
• 1920-02-14 - Brian Henry EVANS b. Devon
• 1920-02-16 - Brian Herbert EVANS b. Teignmouth
• 1922 Q1 ---- Noel J(ohn) EVANS b. reg. Newton Abbott RD
• 1923-04-10 - a Herbert EVANS arr. Brisbane
• 1935 ------- Dorothy has UK address
• 1935-04-15 - a Brian EVANS arr. Liverpool (ours 15yo by then)
• 1939-02-07 - Brian:Address: 'Highgate', Llangorse Rd, Cyncoed, Cardiff
• Profession: surveyor
• Gained Aero Club Cert. 17016 at Cardiff Aeroplane Club

[*]1939 Q2 ---- a Brian H EVANS = Mabel M BAKER (m. reg. Whitchurch RD)
[*]1939 Q4 ---- a David H EVANS b. reg. Shrewsbury RD
[*]1944-03-25 - Brian Henry d. Germany
[*]1944-03-31 - Brian executed in Stalag Luft III as a Great Escaper
[*]1954 ------- Dorothy & Noel:

• Address: 121 MtJoy Ter, Manly Wynnum, Moreton, Q'land

[*]1960-10-01 - Herbert d. Manly, Q'land
[*]1968 ------- Noel listed as an estate agent in Oz (electoral roll)

 

Yes that's presactly my hypothesis - largely stemming from this wildly speculative scenario theorising the whys & wherefores behind Brian's itinerant family roots (merely brainstorming so don't laugh):

• Captain Herbert saves Digger's life in WW1
• Grateful Digger offers saviour his daughter's hand in marriage
• Dorothy sails to Blighty to tie the knot but starts getting homesick
• Dad sails off to Oz and calls mum & the boys over when ready
• Brian gets homesick and returns to dad's home town

If Brian returned, age 15, then it's a fair bet it was back to remaining family (paternal uncle?) where he established himself as a surveyor. The best public keys to that family background are the 1881-1911 censuses.

On another tack, you might not be surprised to learn we're not alone in our quest. The owner of this unsourced Ancestry Public Member Tree ('December 2011 - 2') should prove a useful ally. As their findings are curiously awry from ours, it may prove mutually rewarding to try and make contact. My guess is that they're not immediate family accepting Chinese whispers as truth but this is what I can see for free:
* Brian Henry EVANS
* Birth: 14 Feb 1920, Devon, England
* Death: 25 Mar 1944, Germany
* F: Herbert EVANS
* M: (Name Unknown)
NB: For anyone looking and wondering, they also have a couple of older Private Member Trees ('October 2009_2009-10-10' & 'october2011_2011-09-19_01') probably best ignored

Lastly, if I may summarise our findings so far, I'm a great fan of nutshelling info into an overview timeline to help spot patterns & anomalies - thus:

• 1880-09-25 - Herbert b. Cardiff
• ? ---------- Herbert at 7 St Peter St, Cardiff
• 1881-04-03 - Herbert not in census ?
• 1891-04-05 - Herbert in Cardiff (census)
• 1893~ ------ Dorothy May FLETCHER b. Oz ? (** 1919 pass. list as Dorothy N **)
• 1894 Q2 ---- Dorothy Gertrude M FLETCHER b. Cardiff
• 1901-03-31 - Herbert not in census ?
• 1911-04-02 - Herbert not in census ?
• WW1 ? ------ Herbert a British Army Captain
• 1919 ------- a shopkeeper Herbert EVANS listed in Dunsford (Kelly's Devon directory)
• 1919-04-30 - Dorothy N arr. Liverpool (Nestor from Sydney via Colombo)
• 1919 Q2 ---- Herbert (38) = Dorothy (~26) (m. reg. Cardiff RD)
• 1920 Q1 ---- Brian H EVANS b. reg. Newton Abbott RD
• 1920-02-14 - Brian Henry EVANS b. Devon
• 1920-02-16 - Brian Herbert EVANS b. Teignmouth
• 1922 Q1 ---- Noel J(ohn) EVANS b. reg. Newton Abbott RD
• 1923-04-10 - a Herbert EVANS arr. Brisbane
• 1935 ------- Dorothy has UK address
• 1935-04-15 - a Brian EVANS arr. Liverpool (ours 15yo by then)
• 1939-02-07 - Brian:
  Address: 'Highgate', Llangorse Rd, Cyncoed, Cardiff
• Profession: surveyor
• Gained Aero Club Cert. 17016 at Cardiff Aeroplane Club

[*]1939 Q2 ---- a Brian H EVANS = Mabel M BAKER (m. reg. Whitchurch RD)
[*]1939 Q4 ---- a David H EVANS b. reg. Shrewsbury RD
[*]1944-03-25 - Brian Henry d. Germany
[*]1944-03-31 - Brian executed in Stalag Luft III as a Great Escaper
[*]1954 ------- Dorothy & Noel:

• Address: 121 MtJoy Ter, Manly Wynnum, Moreton, Q'land

[*]1960-10-01 - Herbert d. Manly, Q'land
[*]1968 ------- Noel listed as an estate agent in Oz (electoral roll)


Hi Steve,

Thank you for the chronological framework.

Brian returns, formal education at?, Joins RAF?, Marries?, possible offspring?

He may have had associations with Aussies as well during his time with 49sq as (58) were killed so they would have had many who survived.

Does anybody know when he was taken POW?, Aircraft, Crew as I cannot find him in Chorley volumes?

Cheers

Geoff

 

Does anybody know when he was taken POW?, Aircraft, Crew as I cannot find him in Chorley volumes?

According to a half dozen or so sites including The Great Escape ..We will remember them - Key Publishing Ltd Aviation Forums

42745 F/L Brian H Evans, British, born 14-Feb-20, 49 Sqdn (shot down 6-Dec-40, Hampden I, P4404 EA:R), recaptured at Halbau; last seen alive 31-Mar-44, murdered by Lux and Scharpwinkel; cremated at Liegnitz.

 

According to a half dozen or so sites including The Great Escape ..We will remember them - Key Publishing Ltd Aviation Forums

Thanks Alieneyes.

The websites I used for most of my bio's did not have this info so did not look past them.

Loss details:

Chorley 1939/40 Page 136.

Hampden 1
P4404
EA-R
49sq
Operation Aerodrome

Took off from Scampton to attack airfields in northern France. Hit by flak and reported to have crash landed.

All crew were POW's.

Sgt J.C. Shaw RAF (POW)
P/O B.H.Evans RAF (POW)
Sgt W.K. O'Leary RAF (POW)
Sgt D. Young RAF (POW)

 

Geoff, here is an entry for Herbert Evans returning to the UK. The address on the transcript is 6 Llangorse Road, Cardiff, the same address used by Barry when he got his aero cert. Possible that the family didnt move to Oz until post war, but prior to the CWGC finalising all of their records. His emplyment at the time was as a Master Mariner.

Name: Herbert Evans
Birth Date: abt 1880
Age: 62
Port of Departure: Bombay, India
Arrival Date: 17 Nov 1942
Port of Arrival: Liverpool, England
Ports of Voyage: Bombay
[Cape Town]
[Freetown]
Ship Name: Antenor
Search Ship Database: View the 'Antenor' in the 'Passenger Ships and Images' database
Shipping Line: Blue Funnel Line
Official Number: 147292

Also looks as if there are a few more enteries for him again being a master Mariner (Captain ?)

 

There are a number of Photos of Barry Evans on the Pegasus Archive POW web page, but cant seem to access the site from work ?

P

 

There are a number of Photos of Barry Evans on the Pegasus Archive POW web page, but cant seem to access the site from work ?

P

Hi Phil,

His name was Brian/ Was it Brian or Barry on the Pegasus Archive. I could not find either.

Cheers

Geoff

Edit:

Found the photo!

 

Found the photo!

If this one on their SL3 'The Fifty' page, then that's usually credited to the IWM - something I found following alieneyes' quote to search for 'Hampden P4404'. Here are some of the less generic results with reasons for selection:

• 'HP Hampden P4321 of 49 Sqn' on 12 O'Clock High! discussing one of Brian's earlier prangs
• Brian's Roll of Honour entry on Bomber History with a brief account of his capture
• P4404 crash report on 'Crashes avions 39-45' with the Valentine's Day birth-date
• 'Who Were the Canadians of the Great Escape?' on the Canadian Military Collectors Forum with stories referring to Brian - search page for 5 "Evans" 'needles' in this particular 'haystack' (the 2nd of which identifies him as Welsh!)
• This Apr '44 RNZAF/RAFVR scroll of memoriam also has him as Welsh
• Bob Van Pelt's '[303rd-Talk] WW II Escape Tunnell,Sagan,Germany' whole-article-in-a-post - search again useful for 3 well-spread "Evans" matches (2nd spells out the murder sequence on a daily basis but sadly doesn't pin down any date but 6th Apr - from which it may be inferred that Brian wasn't killed later than the 3rd)

Steve

 

Good sleuthing Steve.

I notice Bomber History has him as an Australian National.

Cheers

Geoff