This is probably one for the enthusiasts. It's obviously a Douglas A-20 Havoc, but is there anything in the photo that can be used to determine what model Havoc/Boston this was? I'm trying to find a higher res image. The aircraft in question was one of the group 'hacks' at Ridgewell while the 381st Bomb Group were there. I dont know when the photo was taken so it could be anywhere between 43 and 45. It was likely stripped of all armament. Is there anything else in the photo that might give a clue as to what version this is? Cheers, Chris.
It looks like one of the later A-20s with the extensively glazed nose, J or K, depending on the engines, Wright R-2600-23 or -29... Here's one described as a J, in British hands. I'll do a paper search later.
Cheers mate, I was hoping you would spot this. Ultimately I'll be making a model of it, so with only one pic to go by I might have to make it up as I go (removal of turret for example), but being able to get the right kit in the first place would be handy.
Hmm, yes, with one front-view photo only you will have to make a lot of assumptions, especially regarding makings, s/n, etc
It looks like one of the later A-20s with the extensively glazed nose, J or K, depending on the engines, Wright R-2600-23 or -29... Here's one described as a J, in British hands. View attachment 56925 I'll do a paper search later. Could be a C or above. I think from the glass on the front it might be a C. Does the plane in the photo still have a turret or ever have one.
I'm hoping I can find a serial number somewhere for it, and hopefully I might then be able to work back and find a manafacture date or something. Even with just a serial number + US star would be good enough. I doubt it would have had squadron markings, or and assigned ID. RE: the turret - if it's like any of the other base hacks or the base formation plane (b-17) all turrets and armaments were removed. Again, if it was a late model with a turret then I'm 90% sure it would have been removed. If it was an earlier one with the hatch, then it probably would have had a window installed.
Hard to tell whether it's a framed or clear nosed Havoc, that is a C or a J, but I'd be more inclined to a J... You pays the money, you takes the choice, Chris What went through your head, making a model from a photo that nobody can see?
I'm setting up a couple of displays for the museum I help to run, and this one will involve the other aircraft that lived on the base, and the associated stories. For example, the base CO flying his piper cub through a T2 hangar, or (again the CO) attempting to lower tools to remove a ball turret from his Vultee Vengeance to a crippled B-17. So yeah, this Havoc will be part of the display and I have only this photo to go on. In fact I only have one photo to go on for each of the base hacks :| Not going to be much fun this. I still havent contemplated how I'm going to draw the nose art on my computer (to print onto blank decal sheets) Thanks anyway mate, I'll see if I can find any references to it in the various books I have about the base.
I also built the bases follow me jeep. hand painted in 1/48 scale. Not finished yet, but as you can see I like to punish myself - and for this one I have three photos to work on !(never again painting a checkerboard)
I thought you were only crazy, but now I'm convinced you're a dedicated crazy Congrats! It must be quite a feeling working for a museum like that! I had no idea that was your purpose, it is quite a challenge trying to make anything significant out of an indistict photo. You are not so crazy after all What was that ball turret story you mention? And a nice 'follow me' that is, please do put up a phot when it's done. And ditto for the A-20
The Jeep is actually complete, bar the decals which I will have to design and print off - I have some blank decal sheets on the way so I'll get the pics up when it's finished. The ball turret story. B17-G 42-97214 'Carolina Queen' (381st BG, 534th BS) was taking off for a mission and one of her landing gear failed to retract, so they had to do it manually. On their return, neither gear would drop, so they got the left gear down manually but the right was jammed (up with the left gear...manually). They decided that they would have to drop the ball turrent and perform a belly landing - except they had no tools to drop the turret. 534 Bomb Squadron CO, Lt Col Conway Hall (Later the 3rd and final BG CO) decided he would take a plan up and drop the tools to it. His first choice was a Vultee Vengeance. He encountered a few problems. Visibility from the cockpit was poor so he could not accurately guage how close he was to the Fort. In the end the rope snapped and the tools dropped. Change of plan. Hall then took up the base formation plane B17E 'Little Rock-ette'. Armed with a stronger and longer rope, they successfully dropped the tools from the (i think) nose of Little Rocke-ette into the radio room of Carolina Queen. They flew out to the north sea, dropped the turret and executed a perfect belly landing. So perfect in-fact the plane was repaired and back in the air fairly soon afterwards. They finally landed 5 hours after the rest of the grou had returned from the mission. I'm sure most of that was manually lowering/raising the landing gear - well, if Memphis Belle (the movie) is anything to go by :p Belly Landing Conway Hall, front left + crew of Carolina Queen Pinched the images from here as I dont have the high res versions handy (also more detailed story) Project 44: The Belly Landing
By dropping the tools do you mean transferring them from one plane to the other at the end of a rope in flight???!!! That guts! They could simply have jumped and be damned with it!
By dropping the tools do you mean transferring them from one plane to the other at the end of a rope in flight???!!! Yes, exactly that. Fortunately they had the sense to tie down the 'reciever' to something in the radio room, otherwise he may well have found himself in mid air dangling at the end of a rope.
I have created a technical diagram showing roughly what happened. NOTE: may not be exactly to scale. Or indeed accurate in any way. :p
