Many years ago I was told there must have been early AEC Matadors with the BEF but since then I had never seen a single picture. Until today! Here, from the collection of a German photographer Otto Kropf in the CEGESOMA image bank, is a low res but clear close-up picture of a Matador at Dunkirk. (Is that another one further back?) Has anyone else seen pictures of Matadors with the BEF? http://www.ww2talk.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=42638&stc=1&d=1293520368
Owen, I think the vehicle in the background that you're referring to is a Thornycroft. Retrievers didn't have a full cab or doors, and the mudguards seem to drop down much lower than the cab front. Nice Mat photo - although a bit frustrating that it doesn't show the front.
Owen, I think the vehicle in the background that you're referring to is a Thornycroft. Retrievers didn't have a full cab or doors, and the mudguards seem to drop down much lower than the cab front. Nice Mat photo - although a bit frustrating that it doesn't show the front. Righto , got it. I see what you mean . This is what I was thinking of. Here's a Matador from 1941 earlist pic I can find, for comparison
I think its a Matador in background , early type cab roof and door shape, there weren't many hard top cab forward control trucks with the BEF. My favourite truck and i'd also never seen pic of one with BEF but read they were in use , great find .
I think its a Matador in background , early type cab roof and door shape, there weren't many hard top cab forward control trucks with the BEF. My favourite truck and i'd also never seen pic of one with BEF but read they were in use , great find . Here is a close-up from the picture posted by Owen to assist comparison. It is dated May 1941 but looks the same as an early 1939/40 Matador. http://www.ww2talk.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=42642&stc=1&d=1293543238 Andrew
I think its a Matador in background , Having looked again, I think you might be right. The mudguards look closer to Mat size than Thornycroft. Did early Matadors have two headlights?
I think I may have already asked this before but is there a book on the market that contains pictures of all these vehicle that were used by the BEF in 1940? Cheers Andy
Your best bet for a rough but pretty comprehensive general guide is probably ATB/Vanderveen's (blessings be upon him) 'Historic Military Vehicle Directory'. That, or the same author's earlier directories of Wheeled/Tracked stuff. After the Battle - Online Store - HMVD vanderveen - vehicles - AbeBooks vanderveen - military vehicles - AbeBooks Did start a wider list here: http://www.ww2talk.com/forum/books-films-tv-radio/28636-booklist-british-commonwealth-military-vehicles.html
Andy British Army, 1939-1945: British Expeditionary Force, 10 MAY 1940: Tables or Organisation and Equipment: Orders of Battle: v. 3: Amazon.co.uk: Alan Philson: Books a link here (gamers) but a bit of info re BEF vehicles BRITISH MILITARY TRANSPORT WWII « War and Game not sure if this helps regards Clive
According to Pat Ware in 'Tugs of War' -MoS first placed an order for 200 Gun Tractor Matadors in 1938. Likely plenty of time for them to work their way into wider service, particularly considering their overall impressive performance. Always worth a shufti when looking at AEC stuff: The Associated Equipment Company's "Contribution to Victory" - page 1> (Page 10 onwards for Matadorish activities.) More good stuff in the AEC society articles, but a bit of a bus focus: The AEC Society Gazette
Here is a close-up from the picture posted by Owen to assist comparison. It is dated May 1941 but looks the same as an early 1939/40 Matador. http://www.ww2talk.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=42642&stc=1&d=1293543238 Andrew Andrew The census number L4151180 is late 1939 or early 1940. Hope this helps... Jan
Hello Andrew, A difficult one... According to the Chilwell list, L4733443 comes from a block (4710201 - 4750700) that was "Allotted to M.E. - Various types". The 47xxxxx numbers were spring 1942, but the vehicles from this block may have been earlier...??? Jan
Is the Matador L4151180, towing a Six inch Howitzer ? I ask for I know my father served with 1st Med Regt and came off at Dunkirk. john
Hi John It is a 6 inch 26cwt howitzer. If you ever want to see a real one there is a lovely example at the Firepower Museum in Greenwich. The picture in post #12 was apparently taken during training in Scotland in 1941. In France, 6 inch howitzers appear to have been generally towed by Scammell R100 tractors. Do you have any further information about what kind of tractors were used by your father's unit? Andrew
One of my Xmas presents was ' British Trucks in Wehrmacht Service' and it has early Matadors pictured (five out of six have the early rounded top cab) and one is still numbered L4133324 , one is just being recovered in Balkans but I guess the others came from France. Some also have the unusual zig zag tread tyres with vertical bars that the Dunkirk picture has, which I also think is an early feature.
I think I may have already asked this before but is there a book on the market that contains pictures of all these vehicle that were used by the BEF in 1940? Cheers Andy Andy As Adam has said, the Vanderveen books are excellent but of course they include many vehicles that were too old or too young to be with the BEF. There are many borderline cases that might or might not have been in France. The Matador is a good example - until now I had not seen any definite proof that it was there although many authors have suggested it was. What would be good someday would be to isolate just those vehicles (including motorcycles of course) that photographic evidence shows were with the BEF. It is possibly a job for another thread when the markings are mostly done. Andrew
Plenty of material about for that thread ! Shame good old Bart never got round to a BEF only book , mind would there be much of a market for it ! then or now. Craig
There are a number of photos of Matadors in German service in Russia in 1941-42. They could only have come from France or Greece. The numbers on some of the German ones are L4133908 (taken in Greece) and L4133324. Does this one still have a British plate?
