Dear All, This is my first posting, so excuse me if I am covering old ground. I am writing an article about my father's WW2 experiences and their impact on him. He is still alive (at 88), and has given me consent to write the article but will only allow me to request his service record, if he can "see and censor" them first. I know why he wants to do this. He speaks freely about the war to this day, but holds back on key events. I want to respect his feelings but also wish to find out more: Is there any way for me to access his service record? Or any other records that might help me develop a better immediate context for his WW2 experiences? Bear in mind I am in Cape Town, South Africa. His name is: John Patrick Field (Private), Royal Hampshires, 1 st Battallian. He was at Gold Beach, Hottot, Villiers Bocage and across France, and with their move into Belgium and their support of the Guards Armoured Division during Operation Market Garden, he was injured in the vicinity North of Nijmegen. On his return from injury in late November 1944, he was posted to the 5th HLI, with whom he remained until after the war ends. I am particularly interested to find more information about the Royal Hampshire period. I do have his service number. Any tips or thoughts from senior members will be greatly appreciated. Best wishes Sean Field
Sean, Hello and welcome to the forum. Other members may be of more help, but your Father should apply for the records himself as the cost is waived. I believe that if you applied with the permission, as signed by your father, you would incurr a charge of 30 pounds. Much better if he applies in his name for his own service record and then he can receive it and edit himself. Try talking to him with regards to not editing it, but be aware that there are sometimes skeletons in the cupboard which people do not wish to be made known even to close relatives. Wishing you luck. Regards Tom
The only things I could think they may contain that he may wish to censor would be medical notes or any punishments - Assuming there is any. I can't think of anything else they could contain that someone would wish to keep secret. Do you know what units he served with and when? If so the unit war diaries maybe a better option regarding what he did-These are not censored. Cheers Andy
Hello Why not let him edit and censor as he sees fit? It seems important to him to be allowed to do it. Dave
Sean It is important to him to see, read and edit his service record before letting you see them, let him do so then as Drew says if you require further information look through the appropriate war diaries to fill in the missing details
He was at ... and their support of the Guards Armoured Division during Operation Market Garden, he was injured in the vicinity North of Nijmegen. Any tips or thoughts from senior members will be greatly appreciated. Sean - I hopefully soon will cover the operations of the 50th Division and the 1st Hampshires north of Nijmegen in this thread: http://www.ww2talk.com/forum/nw-europe/46196-island-german-counter-attack-against-nijmegen-bridgehead-oct-1944-a.html Maybe you could augment to the thread by posting your dad's story.
There are a number of good books about the Hampshires in WWII, I will get the references for you. Geoffrey Picot was the 1st Hampshire's mortar officer all through the NWE campaigns, and his memoir, Accidental Warrior, is outstanding. Your father should find many familiar things in it.
Something thats been over looked and I'd say quite to very important-Ask him what Platoons and Company's he served in, within the battalion. So few relatives get to find out this very important piece of info. If the units war diaries are fairly detailed you will be able to pin him down to a group of 30 to 80 men when most only ever get as far as 800 men. Depending on the diary detail this can make a big difference. Here's the units diaries for WW2. WO 169/353 1 Hampshire Regiment 1939 Sept.- 1940 Dec. WO 169/1727 1 Hampshire Regiment 1941 Jan. WO 169/7429 1 Hampshire Regiment 1942 Jan.- Dec. WO 169/14587 1 Hampshire Regiment 1943 Jan., Feb. WO 169/10222 1 Hampshire Regiment 1943 Mar., May- July WO 169/10223 1 Hampshire Regiment 1943 Aug.- Dec. WO 171/1305 1 Hampshire Regiment 1944 Jan.- Apr., June- Dec. WO 166/17162 1 Hampshire Regiment 1945 Jan.-June Click the red link below if you want me to copy any of them for you. Cheers Andy
Dear All, Many thanks for all your inputs and advice: 1. On his war service record access, allow me to expand on the problem as I see it: on the one hand, as a researcher who believes in ethical principles, I see this as his record and I agree that the best route is for him to request these records, and that he can do with them as he wishes. On the other hand, I know what the events are that he is ashamed about (and yes, it does involve a "punishment" of being sent to detention barracks in Northern France), but it is the causal event that resulted in him being sent to detention that he refuses to speak about. The irony is that he let slip to my brother that he was exonerated "on appeal". I want to honor my father for all his bravery and contributions, and I think his war service record might proof that. Also, this documentary proof and my article "might" help him let go of some of the emotional burden he still carries to-day. However, he neither wants to "dig up the past" nor request his service record. Paradoxically, he still freely talks about his war experiences. And bear in mind my frustration, as I am a trained oral historian (although most of my prior research work involves apartheid historical themes) I wish to recognize and validate my father by inscribing his WW2 story into history. But he refuses to being interviewed by any-one and is now making my full access to his war service record quite difficult. Excuse me for sounding overly emotional but I am attempting to be both an "ethical researcher" and a "respectful son" in this endeavor. 2. Thanks Andy, I will try to establish his company and platoon before exploring the unit diaries. 3.Thanks TTH, for the Picot reference, and any others you can suggest will be much appreciated. My university library tends not to have these refs, but I will track them down on-line. Best wishes Sean Field
Hi Sean, If I may I would like to add my personal experiences to your ‘tricky problem’. My father is nearly 92 and was part of 50 Division Signals Regt. Some of his memories are with the Signals War Diary on this site. By your father applying for his record personally he will be fast-tracked – we waited a little over a month for my dad’s records to come through, while various estimates on the site of up to a year had been quoted. Using the War Diary was an excellent way to get anecdotes and events into a chronological order. It brought up many more questions than answers however, and is ongoing. It was a starting point to get him talking about incidents, and those named in the attached paperwork. He told me he had upward of thirty entries on his charge sheet, ”all daft things” – but apart from a note of two Royal Warrants (which he was happy to talk about) no other details appeared. In fact the Records are not as detailed as you may think. I can understand your father’s reticence; to leave the past alone – and some areas I have found are too personal to recount, or painful to recall. It is sometimes things said in passing which seem most important. Like driving along a main road, catching sight of something in a side street and then trying to get back to it. I hope you will be able to persuade your father that his voice should be heard. It is important. Please give him our best wishes Mel Jnr & Snr.
Sean, It seems to me that there are two elements to your question: a legal one and an ethical one. You asked in your original post if there was any way for you to access his service record. That is a legal question, and AFAIK there is a straightforward legal answer to it: yes, once he is dead. Others are free to correct me if I'm wrong about this, but I don't believe that there is any way for an ex-serviceman to permanently embargo their records from their next-of-kin. In other words, if you are sufficiently curious about what is in there, then the truth will out one day. Your father's refusal to cooperate, though perfectly understandable, is in that sense futile. Time will reveal all, should you wish it to. Sorry to put it in such stark terms, but there it is. Now, that deals simply with the legal side of it. But there is an ethical side too. Ought you to continue to probe this issue if your father does not wish you to? That is not a question anyone here can answer. It depends entirely on the relationship you have with your father. You could, if you wish, point out (hopefully in a sensitive way) that one day you'll have access to the information he wishes to censor, whether he likes it or not: so it would be better for him to 'give his side of the story' now while he has the chance. But that may not be a conversation you want to have. Good luck with what sounds like a difficult problem, Best, Alan
Dear Mel, Many thanks for your considerate reply. In thinking about both the research and personal challenges raised by the issue of accessing my father' service record, I have come to realize that I need to tell him what I know about the specific WW2 episode that he feels uncomfortable about. I obviously need to do this with empathy and in a very sensitive manner, and then see where that leads us. Best wishes Sean Field
Dear Alan, Thanks for your clear exposition of my tricky problem. I have decided to gently broach the subject with him again, but revealing what I know about the episode he is uncomfortable about. As you say, the "truth" will ultimately come out. I, perhaps naively, hope it will happen while he is still alive, and that it might have a positive bearing on his remaining days and our relationship. Best wishes Sean
Sean: The Hampshire regimental history is The Royal Hampshire Regiment, vol. 3: 1918–1954, Aldershot: Gale & Polden, 1955. Two volumes in the Battleground Europe series give good coverage of the 1st Hampshire's actions on D-Day and near Nijmegen. These are both by Tim Saunders, GOLD Beach-Jig: Jig Sector and West, Barnsley: Leo Cooper, 2002, and The Island: Nijmegen to Arnhem, September 1944, Barnsley: Leo Cooper, 2002. One more thing. All sources report that the 1st Hampshire had an extremely rough time during June and July of '44. The unit fought well on D-Day but suffered severe losses including the CO (H.D. Nelson Smith) and other key officers. Nelson Smith's successor did not handle the unit properly, and all ranks soon lost confidence in him. The result was a sharp decline in morale, which was reflected in lessened efficiency and some desertion and other indiscipline as well. The unit improved in July after A.J.D. Turner took over, but if your father was one of the men who got into disciplinary trouble during this period then his case was not unique. If he was exonerated on appeal and performed well later, he would have little reason to reproach himself. But these matters are highly personal and emotional, and old veterans are very reluctant to be pushed in any direction. They don't seem to have the modern desire to confess everything.
Dear TTH, Many thanks for the references, that is very helpful. Your description of the period of ill discipline in the 1st Hampshire is also very interesting. Although, if my father's memories are accurate, his episode happened in October '44, after he was injured. I am aware that these memories and matters are acutely personal and that he has no actual reason to reproach himself, and that his mind-set is of another time and will not be easily changed. However, while it might be that the "confessional mode" is exaggerated in contemporary times, its also true that there is now much more understanding and empathy of what soldiers and veterans go through in the aftermath of wars and conflicts. On a personal note, the irony is that my own capacity, as an oral historian that attentively listens and has empathy for those that "choose to speak" about their experiences of war/violence, was developed throughout my childhood while listening to my father talk about his WW2 experiences. Many thanks Sean
