51 HD Scout Carriers

Discussion in '1940' started by Sandy Crawford, Nov 19, 2019.

  1. Sandy Crawford

    Sandy Crawford New Member


    I was wondering if anyone can help me. I'm making a model of scout carrier and would like to mark it up as one from the 51 HD as used in 1940 with the BEF. My problem is with the AoS markings. I find it difficult to understand these markings. Would anyone know of a suitable AoS that I can apply to my model?

    Thanks for your help.
  2. Rich Payne

    Rich Payne Rivet Counter Patron 1940 Obsessive

    The Scout carrier was as its name suggests, a reconnaissance vehicle and was not issued to infantry battalions. Its presence within an infantry division would have been solely with the Divisional Cavalry - In the case of 51st (Highland) Division, this was 1st Fife & Forfar Yeomanry prior to April...They were then replaced by 1st Lothians and Border Yeomanry.

    The standard arm of service serial for the divisional cavalry was a figure '2' on a black background and this is the marking generally seen on Scout carriers (ignoring the odd example converted to AOP)
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  3. Sandy Crawford

    Sandy Crawford New Member

    Thank you for your reply Rich, much appreciated. So on the offside would be the 51 HD marking and from what I can gather the 2 on the black square would be on a vertical plate roughly in the middle of the glacis? I seen photos, from photobucket, on the forum of Scouts but they are very blurry. Is there a reason for this? Thanks again.
  4. Rich Payne

    Rich Payne Rivet Counter Patron 1940 Obsessive

    I don't have any identifiable Div. Cav. images from 51st Div on file unfortunately. To be honest, of all the types of unit, cavalry seem to have been the least likely to display formation signs so it's a difficult thing to confirm. 1st and 2nd Divisions in 1 Corps seem to have been fairly consistent. Here are a couple belonging to 13/18 Royal Hussars of 1st Div...You can see the positioning of the AoS serials and also the white triangle formation sign on the left-hand wings. I don't know if it's safe to assume that 1 Lothians & Border followed exactly the same practice.

    1 Div Scout Carrier b.jpg

    13 18 R Hussars Hamme Mille d.jpg

    13 18 R Hussars Hamme Mille.jpg
    The blurring unfortunately is photobucket's current method of punishing those of us who were foolish enough to use their hosting service at the time when it was free, in the hope that we'll now pay for it ! I have sporadically re-posted some of my images...If there are any of mine that you want to see without the blurring, just ask and I'll try to find a decent copy to re-post.

    This by the way is probably the clearest photo that I have of 51st Div's stag's head on the horizontally split background.

    51st Div CDSW abandoned.JPG
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  5. morrisc8

    morrisc8 Under the Bed

    Same carrier as above. photo from my collection. I do have more photos of this carrier . PM me if you would like a copy.
    Keith bren carrier photo 2.jpg
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  6. morrisc8

    morrisc8 Under the Bed

    One more carrier name.jpg
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  7. Sandy Crawford

    Sandy Crawford New Member

    Excellent, thank you all for your replies. Regarding the AoS numbers. Were they a set number for individual units or regiments. So '2' in this case is Cavalry and the only way to identify the unit would be if you had the Division marking as well? Is there a book that shows these numbers or is it just a case of studying photos and doing lots of research into the various units? Sorry for all these questions. My main research/writing area is aircraft but I mostly model military vehicles. I'm working on some BEF projects and I'd like to get the markings correct.

    This is the image I found on the 'net that gave me the idea to make a Scout Carrier. I do not know the copyright holder.


    Attached Files:

  8. Rich Payne

    Rich Payne Rivet Counter Patron 1940 Obsessive

    Indeed Sandy, if the Formation (GHQ, LoC, Corps or Div in the case of the BEF) is not visible then it's guesswork - It's the combination of the two that identifies. There are one or two anomalies - 2 Corps only began to follow the system late in April and 4th Infantry Division never did.

    Andrew Foulkes who was a regular poster on here under the name 'May 1940' produced a detailed book - "Vehicle Markings of the BEF" which may still be available. He's currently taking a sabatical while he works on a comprehensive guide to BEF vehicles and equipment and places it all in context...
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  9. Sandy Crawford

    Sandy Crawford New Member

    Thanks Rich, much appreciated.
  10. Inverugie

    Inverugie Member

    Further to the query regarding Scout Carriers, I've read on a couple of 'third-hand' internet sites that the carriers used by the Div Recce regiments were all armed with the Boys AT rifle, rather than the 1:3 ratio seen with the Bren Carriers belonging to the Infantry bns. Can anyone confirm whether this is correct?
  11. Rich Payne

    Rich Payne Rivet Counter Patron 1940 Obsessive

    It does indeed seem to be the case that the Scout Carriers frontal armament was a Boys rifle, mounted on a special pintle arrangement. It would seem that they also carried a Bren Gun, usually on a Motley AA mount.
  12. Inverugie

    Inverugie Member

    Thanks Rich.

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