42445 The Hon. Lieutenant John Patrick BOWES-LYON, 2 Scots Guards: 18/09/1941 - 19/09/1941

https://www.cwgc.org/find-records/f...ails/2115778/the-hon-john-patrick-bowes-lyon/
LIEUTENANT The Hon. JOHN PATRICK BOWES-LYON
Service Number: 42445
Regiment & Unit: 2nd Bn. Scots Guards
Date of Death: Between 18 September 1941 and 19 September 1941
Age 31 years old
Buried or commemorated at HALFAYA SOLLUM WAR CEMETERY
Grave Reference: 1. F. 2.
Location: Egypt
Additional Info: Master of Glamis.
Son of Patrick Bowes-Lyon, 15th Earl of Strathmore and Kinghorne, and of Lady Dorothy Beatrice Godolphin Osborne, of Glamis Castle, Angus.
Cousin of Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth II.
Personal Inscription: REQUIESCAT IN PACE
See cemetery plan

Kyle

 

Royal link with SS Empire Pride

Hi all,

I quote from my grandfathers diary'

(1941) 'During this time I spent a spell guarding the empire pride with anti aircraft and machine guns. during the night the crew woke everyone up as a knocking sound was heard people searched the ship and it was thought the enemy was sneaking around. In the morning it was told a young lieutenant had jumped over the side of the ship and hung himself with his body hitting the ship (hence the knocking sound). I found from talking to others that this man had had a bet on the boat with others and there had been some drinking involved too. People in smart suits came along in a nice car to collect the body and take it away it was later found out it was John Patrick Bowes-Lyon born on 1st January 1910 he was queen mothers nephew.

Done some research and have found the man in question but his death recorded on 19th sept 1940 in halfaya pass? any thoughts anyone

 

The Scots Guards, 1919 -1955, Pgs 84-5, Africa 1941:
"By daylight on the 15th the Battalion was back in new positions near Sidi Barrani, but in the course of the morning it became apparent that the enemy forces on the Escarpment had been withdrawn, and by midnight the Battalion was back in its previous positions. The possible thrust had proved to be but a reconnaissance in force and our withdrawal had been so rapid and well timed that the reconnaissance had made no further contact.

Three nights later on the 18th a sad loss was suffered when Lieutenant The Hon. J.P. BOWES-LYON, a nephew of Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth the Queen Mother, was killed while charging an enemy sangar with grenades while on patrol."

 

A copy used to hang in one of the offices of 2nd Bn Scots Guards cannot remember which office:

 

View attachment 100763

If this is the person in question....ahem...he looks kinda gay.
I can't explain how, but it crossed my mind...
Suicide by hanging may then sound ' logic' (for that time, many 'discovered' homo's did choose suicide as a way ' out' ).

And the consequent cover up , it all makes sense.
And what better way to dismember a neckstrung corpse than to blast it into pieces , socalled "while charging an enemy sangar with grenades".


It's guessing, but I 'm always in for some conspiracy theory when it 's core truth is clumsiness.

 

What a trollish post.

This conspiracy theory of yours is based on what exactly?

 

The mystery appears to be that anything crossed your mind!

 

intresting information my research had discovered a 1940 death date which didn't go in with my diary entry but that now seems to correspond thanks dbf

 

Wishful thinking for a new movie/book
But the story of the original poster is biggest basis really, and what I said already (and his presumed important high profile family).


Just to remember how the times were for homosexuals:

Alan Turing's homosexuality resulted in a criminal prosecution in 1952, when homosexual acts were still illegal in the United Kingdom. He accepted treatment with female hormones (chemical castration) as an alternative to prison. Turing died in 1954, just over two weeks before his 42nd birthday, from cyanide poisoning. An inquest determined that his death was suicide; his mother and some others believed his death was accidental

 

No, apparently based on your opinion of a photo.

 

Arnhem, not terribly surprised to read a baited, rather ill informed post.

Opinions of photos hardly stand as decent evidence to go off. Furthermore citing Turing is a terrible strawman argument in this case. Homosexuality and the army is a colourful topic, (consider the great Micky Burn for example), and the reception Montgomery received in the Commons for announcing not one case of reported buggery in 21AG... hysterical laughter from the back benches.

There are several personal accounts and other books which touch upon this area.

From the account "this man had had a bet on the boat with others and there had been some drinking involved too" - it certainly sounds whoever the unfortunate person was suffered death by misadventure.

 

good day ncayote,27.feb.2013.11:52pm.re:royal link with ss.empire pride.it looks like a cover up for obvious reasons.it seems to have generated an interesting thread.not the best way for a young man to end his life,all the best,bernard85.

 

From War Diary, 2SG, 18 & 19 September, 1941:


18 September
A mild dust-storm blew during the day.
During the night 18/19 September the following activities took place:-

(i ) one Platoon Right Flank relieved Platoon F Company in CHAR Column.
This Platoon rejoined F Company early on 19th September.

(ii ) Fighting Patrol under Lieutenant BOWES-LYON went out to secure an identification from the area Point 10 and beyond, if necessary.
They encountered the enemy at Point 10 and met M.G. fire.
The enemy also brought down heavy defensive fire from their Artillery.
The patrol were forced to seek cover in the sea.
Lieutenant BOWES-LYON and Sergeant WORKMAN did not return with the remainder of the patrol.
Two Sergeants and two Guardsmen were wounded.

(iii ) Fighting patrol under Captain GRANT-WATSON went to WADI SHABA to secure an identification.
They encountered enemy M.G. posts at the foot of the Wadi.
Grenades were thrown and Lance-Corporal MORRISON attacked one enemy post with a Tommy-gun.
Several casualties were inflicted on the enemy.
Captain GRANT-WATSON went to search one enemy dead body and whilst doing so was knocked over by the blast from an enemy shell or mortar bomb.
The patrol then withdrew.
Guardsman HEWITT was wounded in the back.

[hr]

19 September
Lieutenant The Honourable J.P. BOWES-LYON and Sergeant WORKMAN reported ‘Missing - Believed Killed’.
The names of the other men wounded in F Company during the night 18/19 September are:-
Sergeant TINGLEY
Lance-Sergeant FAULTS
Guardsman PEARSON, and
Guardsman MULLIN

During the afternoon the enemy batteries shelled the Pl. H.Q. at Point 19.
The following were killed:-
Lance-Corporal BRYDEN, and
Lance-Corporal CRICHTON.
Guardsman TWEEDIE was severely wounded.

A Fighting Patrol under 2/Lieutenant BUTTER was sent to WADI SHABA during night 19/20 September but saw no enemy.


[hr]

https://www.cwgc.org/find-records/f...ails/2115778/the-hon-john-patrick-bowes-lyon/
LIEUTENANT The Hon. JOHN PATRICK BOWES-LYON
Service Number: 42445
Regiment & Unit: 2nd Bn. Scots Guards
Date of Death: Between 18 September 1941 and 19 September 1941
Age 31 years old
Buried or commemorated at HALFAYA SOLLUM WAR CEMETERY
Grave Reference: 1. F. 2.
Location: Egypt
Additional Info: Master of Glamis.
Son of Patrick Bowes-Lyon, 15th Earl of Strathmore and Kinghorne, and of Lady Dorothy Beatrice Godolphin Osborne, of Glamis Castle, Angus.
Cousin of Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth II.
Personal Inscription: REQUIESCAT IN PACE

http://www.cwgc.org/find-war-dead/casualty/2058394/
WORKMAN, JAMES
Rank: Serjeant
Service No: 2695548
Date of Death: Between 18/09/1941 and 19/09/1941
Age: 25
Regiment/Service: Scots Guards
Grave Reference: 1. F. 3.
Cemetery: HALFAYA SOLLUM WAR CEMETERY
Additional Information: Son of Alexander and Margaret Stevenson Workman, of Glasgow.

 

Regarding post #1 the diary entry obviously has the incorrect LYON. However, I can confirm that a Lt Lyon died on EMPIRE PRIDE.
In view of the nature of death claimed in the diary I don't think I should post anymore information on who it was.

Regards
Hugh

 

Thanks Hugh,
It's an old thread but your reply shows an answer can be found eventually.

 

Thought the ship's name was familiar.........

http://ww2talk.com/forums/topic/46082-games-on-the-empire-pride/

Ron

 

Personal Number: 42445
Rank: Lieutenant
Name: The Hon. John Patrick BOWES-LYON, Master of Glamis
Unit: 2 Scots Guards


London Gazette : 28 August 1931
https://www.thegazette.co.uk/London/issue/33748/page/5624/data.pdf
The undermentioned officers, from the Supp. Res. of Off., to be 2nd Lts. 28th Aug. 1931 :—
FOOT GUARDS.
S. G'ds.—
2nd Lt. Hon. John Patrick BOWES-LYON (Master of Glamis), S. G'ds.

London Gazette : 28 August 1934
https://www.thegazette.co.uk/London/issue/34082/page/5460/data.pdf
The undermentioned 2nd Lts. to be Lts. 27th Aug. 1934:—
FOOT GUARDS.
S. G'ds.—
2nd Lt. Hon. J. P. Bowes-Lyon (Master of Glamis) to be Lt. 28th Aug. 1934.

 

Name: [John Patrick] Bowes-Lyon . Date of Birth: [unspecified] . Place of Birth:... | The National Archives
WO 416/37/287
Name: [John Patrick] Bowes-Lyon.
Date of Birth: [unspecified].
Place of Birth: [unspecified].
Service: British Army.
Rank: Lieutenant.
Regiment/Unit/Squadron: [Scots Guards].
Service Number: [unspecified].
Date of Capture: [unspecified].
Theatre of Capture: [unspecified].
Camp Name/Number: [unspecified].
PoW number: [unspecified].
Date of Death: 18/9/1941.
Number of Photographs: 0.
Number of Fingerprints: 0.
Number of X-rays: 0.
Number of Cards: 2.
Date: [1939-1945]

 

See also:

• Person Page
• Patrick Bowes-Lyon, 15th Earl of Strathmore and Kinghorne - Wikipedia
• "The Earl married Lady Dorothy Beatrix Godolphin Osborne (3 December 1888 – 18 June 1946), daughter of George Osborne, 10th Duke of Leeds, on 21 November 1908 in London. The couple had four children: [Eldest] Hon. John Patrick Bowes-Lyon, Master of Glamis (1 January 1910 – 19 September 1941), killed in action, unmarried"