4189181 Private Charles Leah Cheshire Regt attached 113 Coy AMPC

Discussion in '1940' started by sebfrench76, Sep 20, 2012.

  1. grimmy

    grimmy Guest

    Thanks Tom. Bet you don't miss the Preston weather - it's tanking it down at the moment. The Ribble will be high tonight.
     
  2. Rich Payne

    Rich Payne Rivet Counter Patron 1940 Obsessive

    I wonder if the answer to this one lies in the creation of the AMPC (subsequently designated Pioneer Corps) in 1939/40 ?

    To quote Forty's 'British Army Handbook'

    "...compsed of reservists from a mixture of infantry and cavalry regiments, elderly volunteers of First World War vintage and militiamen who were below the physical standard required by front line troops."

    A Search of CWGC using Geoff's Search Engine shows nine entries relating to the 1940 campaign for men of the Cheshire Regt. seconded to the Pioneers. That such a number have a secondary unit suggests that the men serving in the AMPC may often have not been officially transferred. Many of them are dated 17th June which reinforces Harry's point about units due to be evacuated on 'Lancastria'.

    001 BARNHOUSE FG 4188009 ATTD AUX MIL 28/05/1940 - - 23/06/1940 CHESHIRE REGIMENT
    002 BEER F 4185994 ATTD AUX MIL 07/06/1940 - - 08/06/1940 CHESHIRE REGIMENT
    003 HIBBINS HL 4119665 ATTD AUX MIL 17/06/1940 CHESHIRE REGIMENT
    004 JAMES H 4189138 ATTD AUX MIL 17/06/1940 CHESHIRE REGIMENT
    005 JOHNSON J 4189755 ATTD AUX MIL 03/06/1940 CHESHIRE REGIMENT
    006 KEENAN A 4188090 ATTD AUX MIL 17/06/1940 CHESHIRE REGIMENT
    007 SMITH D 4122024 ATTD AUX MIL 17/06/1940 CHESHIRE REGIMENT
    008 WOODLAND IF 4186887 ATTD AUX MIL 17/06/1940 CHESHIRE REGIMENT
    009 WRIGHT A 4121385 ATTD 13 COY, AUX MIL 17/06/1940 CHESHIRE REGIMENT

    Charles Leah is not listed as although his headstone mantions the Pioneer Corps, his CWGC record doesn't seem to.

    If the Cheshire Regt. men were serving together then there may be a clue in the diary for 13 Coy. APMC as that is the only one specifically mentioned.
     
  3. KevinBattle

    KevinBattle Senior Member

    He IS on the Army Roll of Honour, but incorrectly spelt.
    Name: Charles Leach. Rank: Private. Death Date: 8 Jun 1940. Number: 4189181
    Birth Place: Manchester. Residence: Montgomeryshire. Regiment at Enlistment: Royal Welch Fusiliers
    Branch at Enlistment: Infantry. Theatre of War: France and Belgium Campaign, 1939/40
    Regiment at Death: Cheshire Regiment. Branch at Death: Infantry
    which all ties in with previous info.
    Name: Charles Leah. Spouse: Florence I Wilkinson. Date of Registration: Apr-May-Jun 1938. Registration district: Welshpool, Montgomeryshire. Volume: 11b. Page: 313
    which might give a birth date around 1917, assuming he married at about 21 years old....
     
  4. grimmy

    grimmy Guest

    Nice one Kevin.

    He was born on 9th July 1911 in Bramhall, Cheshire. He married Florency Ivy Wilkinson at Welshpool Wesleyan Chapel.

    A relative (I assume) has replied to my message:

    No one has his war record. I do know he served in the Royal Welsh Fusiliers and was called up as a reservist to the Cheshire Regiment I am pretty sure he was in the 6th battalion. His service number is 4189181.
     
  5. Drew5233

    Drew5233 #FuturePilot 1940 Obsessive

    I've copied the Cheshires Missing Men file today. So I'll have a look at it properly in a couple of days. If the family think he was 6th Bn then he was attached to another unit in France only the 2nd, 4th and 7th Bn's deployed with the BEF.
     
  6. Drew5233

    Drew5233 #FuturePilot 1940 Obsessive

  7. Drew5233

    Drew5233 #FuturePilot 1940 Obsessive

    The above page is the only mention of him I could find but someone must have seen him killed for him to be KIA.

    There is a fair few mentions of Cheshire Regt men attached to 13 and 113 AMPC so I guess the next step is to copy these diaries.
     
  8. Rich Payne

    Rich Payne Rivet Counter Patron 1940 Obsessive

    The next question, Drew is whether there is a diary for 113 Coy. AMPC - Judging by the number of prisoners, they must've got caught up in a scrap somewhere. The dead could be Lancastria casualties, but not the prisoners.

    Synchronised posting !
     
  9. Drew5233

    Drew5233 #FuturePilot 1940 Obsessive

    Just checked the dates:

    13 Coy ends in April and 113 Coy ends in May !

    Really could do with a copy of his service records to see if he was attached I think.


    Edit

    Doh.......Look at the top of the page-He was 113 Company AMPC !
     
  10. Harry Ree

    Harry Ree Very Senior Member

    Charles Leah must have been travelling with his unit under evacuation orders for St Nazaire.The Pioneer Companies were all destined for ecavuation via the Lancastria.

    The Luftwaffe enjoyed air supremacy. Many of these columns withdrawing south west came under air attack from unopposed aircraft such as the obselete Stuka and Charles Leach may well have been a victim of such attacks.

    Know of a chap who worked with my father prewar,was of a mature age and decided to seek stability from unemployment in the West Riding and joined the army in 1938...talking to his son,he went direct into the Pioneers.Served in the No 73 Company AMPC, evacuated to St Nazaire and lost his life during the afternoon of 17 June 1940.He is remembered on the Dunkirk Memorial.
     
  11. Rich Payne

    Rich Payne Rivet Counter Patron 1940 Obsessive

    The answer to this one seems to lie in the date of death - 8th June, the date that Rouen fell to the Germans.

    113 Coy. AMPC formed part of the Beauman Division (in C Brigade - Digforce under Diggle). Is there a diary for any of these ad hoc formations ?

    I'd suspect that his death and the loss of the prisoners relates to them being over-run close to Rouen.
     
  12. specialpepe2005

    specialpepe2005 Junior Member

    Hello chaps!
    Yesterday,i was driving on the very small roads in the vicinity of Rouen,and in Grainville sur Ry,in a very quiet cimetery near a quite nice church,i spotted this grave.You surely know this poor soul,anyway i photographied his last place,cause the sun was absolutely gorgeous,and the flowers on his grave touched me deeply..
    I cannot thank you enough for this photograph as this is my grandfather's grave. He was in the Cheshire Regt but before that he was in the welsh fusiliers and was recalled as a reservist for the 2nd world war. I do have photgraphs of him in uniform and a couple of great items from my Father who was his only son and was 15 months old when Charles died. My Nan had married him in June 1938 and my Father was born March 1939 so he must have been a honeymoon baby. She was left on her own with my Father but managed. They lived in Llanfair Caerinion near Welshpool, Montgomeryshire. He served in Gibraltor too as I have found a passenger list for 1932 as a soldier in the welsh regt. Thank you so much it means a lot to me to finally see where he is supposedly buried. Judith
     
  13. Drew5233

    Drew5233 #FuturePilot 1940 Obsessive

    Hi Judith and welcome to the forum.

    I think we maybe able to find out some more info for you yet.

    Regards
    Andy
     
  14. Drew5233

    Drew5233 #FuturePilot 1940 Obsessive

    Ok chaps-what do we want to see? Everything (His units diary for May, June and a map of where he was prior to being killed) or just the June section of the diary up to his date of death?
     
  15. gpo son

    gpo son Senior Member

    Amazing everyone, way to go Seb. all started with a little searching. and local knowledge.
    Matt
     
  16. specialpepe2005

    specialpepe2005 Junior Member

    His uncle, another Charles, was in the 12th (Service) Bn, Cheshire Regt in WW1. The family originally came from the Stockport area.

    The 'baby son', mentioned in the press cutting, died in Birkenhead in 2001.

    The photographs, from a family history website, were only posted online 3 days ago. What are the chances of that?
    I am the one who put my grandfathers photos online after one of your chaps Neil contacted me and I was so grateful for the photo of his grave. The baby son was my father.
     
  17. specialpepe2005

    specialpepe2005 Junior Member

    Hi Judith and welcome to the forum.

    I think we maybe able to find out some more info for you yet.

    Regards
    Andy
    Thank you very much it is appreciated having someone else interested in the information. Just wish I could afford to get his records.
     
  18. Rich Payne

    Rich Payne Rivet Counter Patron 1940 Obsessive

    Ok chaps-what do we want to see? Everything (His units diary for May, June and a map of where he was prior to being killed) or just the June section of the diary up to his date of death?

    Drew, what is the date of the map and of which location ? My impression is that the June section is what's relevant to this thread but that a separate thread relating to the deployment of the AMPCs in the Beauman Division would be fascinating.

    Judith, I think that quite a number of us are interested in what happened to your Grandfather and the part that he played in ensuring the evacuation of the greater part of the British Expeditionary Force from France. He is just one casualty of many but he symbolises the 1940 campaign.:poppy:
     
  19. specialpepe2005

    specialpepe2005 Junior Member

    Just a small side line My great grandfather William Wilkinson was killed in WW1 I have his records and he also was in the welsh regt. He was shot in france in the head I believe so it says on his record and was sent to Hadra, Alexandria military hospital in Egypt where he contracted meningitis and consequently died. On the Leah side of the family 5 of my great Uncles where in the first WW and only one of them died a Fred Leah the other four including my grandfathers father came back. I also have his records. Another of my great grandfathers was Robert William Jones and he was in the WW2 he was wounded and returned home, so worked on the ferries from Seacombe to Liverpool during the war. So just to put another interesting slant on all this I too was in the army!!!!!!!!!
     
  20. sebfrench76

    sebfrench76 Senior Member

    If i only could realize that my iphone was about to generate such a thread...
    The main feeling when i discover this lonely grave is " my God,why didn't he made it to his home?"
    Glad that i could bring something interesting,for once...
     

Share This Page