3386259 Pte James HIBBERT, 2nd Loyals - Hell Ship?

Discussion in 'Prisoners of War' started by coldstreamer20, Oct 2, 2022.

  1. coldstreamer20

    coldstreamer20 Junior Member

    Hi Pals, Whilst researching soldier from the 2nd Loyals who was taken prisoner of war at Singapore 15/2/1942 i have discovered he was moved to mainline Japan,the details of the camps are Amagasaka August 1944 to June 1945 and Nagoya June 1945 to August 1945.My question is would he have been transported to Japan on one of the notorious Hell ships ?.Thanks /
     
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  2. timuk

    timuk Well-Known Member

    It would help if you could give us his name and Service No.

    Tim
     
  3. coldstreamer20

    coldstreamer20 Junior Member

    Hi Tim,The soldiers details are 3386259 Pte James Hibbert 2nd Loyals,regards Paul
     
  4. SDP

    SDP Incurable Cometoholic

    Where was he between capture at Singapore and August 1944; that's a long time so hence my question.

    Note: I've been through a similar exercise re my Uncle George (captured at Singapore with Lanarkshire Yeomanry, and transported on the Hell Ship 'England Maru' to Formosa) and it is possible to learn a lot even from information in the Public Domain.
     
  5. timuk

    timuk Well-Known Member

    To answer the question #1 the answer is 'Yes'. James Hibbert was moved from working on the Thai-Burma Railway to Japan in 'Japan Party 2'. It will be difficult to identify exactly which hellship he travelled on as this party were spread over several. James originally moved from Singapore to the TBR on 26 Jun 42 as part of the 'First Mainland Party'. If you email the very helpful Thailand-Burma Railway Centre TBRC Online: THE THAILAND-BURMA RAILWAY CENTRE they will be able to give you the information they hold on James.
    To avoid duplication, can you tell me what information you already have? For instance do you have his Liberation Questionnaire, Japanese Index Card etc

    Tim
     
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  6. coldstreamer20

    coldstreamer20 Junior Member

    Hi,Many thanks to SDP and Tim for the detailed information and "pointers",yes i have liberation questionaire,hence the information regarding Pte Hibberts move to mainland Japan and no i dont have his Japanese Index Card,regards Paul
     
  7. papiermache

    papiermache Well-Known Member

    There are Hell Ship casualties lists but embarkation lists are virtually unknown. This is because the Japanese Prisoner of War Information Bureau was notoriously inefficient and would not give names and places to the Red Cross. After survivors of the sinkings of Hell Ships reached Allied hands in September 1944 the international outrage stirred by their accounts and the fact that Japan knew it was just a matter of time before they were defeated meant that the Japanese Prisoner of War Information Bureau were provoked into improving their performance, slightly. The Japanese PWIB definitely had obligations to inform the Allies of details of men they held under the Hague Rules from 1907. The Japanese attitude to the later Geneva Conventions, which they had signed, but not ratified, did not mean that they could ignore the obligations of the Hague Rules, which Japan had ratified.

    I would definitely recommend that you contact the TBRC.
     
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  8. coldstreamer20

    coldstreamer20 Junior Member

    Many thanks for the very detailed infomation,regards Paul
     
  9. timuk

    timuk Well-Known Member

    upload_2022-10-3_12-50-17.png
    upload_2022-10-3_12-49-26.png
    I can't translate Japanese but you can guess from the dates which are in Japanese format. ie: 19/6/18 is 18 Jun 44 and 20/5/21 is 21 May 45.
    From WO 361/1993 - Movement list May 1944
    To Nippon 19/5/19 (19 May 44)
    upload_2022-10-3_13-30-58.png
    From WO 361/2167 - No. 2 Group
    upload_2022-10-3_13-9-59.png
    upload_2022-10-3_13-15-23.png
    Amagasaki was one of the camps in the Osaka Group.

    Nagoya 6B - Extracted from Nagoya #6B Nomachi (Takaoka) POW Camp Formerly Tok-21D

    Patient roster - this is probably James
    upload_2022-10-3_13-27-47.png
    Liberation Roster
    upload_2022-10-3_13-29-9.png

    Tim
     
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  10. Extreme

    Extreme Tha Khanun explorer

    33886259 Private James Hibbert, Ovl to Thailand 26/06/1942 (FMP), Group 1, then Group 2, No.7 Railway Battalion, commanded by Lt Col Stitt, 2nd Gordon Highlanders. Appears in the Chungkai Hospital records, admitted 23/01/1943 to 27/01/1943, suffering with Malaria. How far he progressed up country is not certain. He most likely went to Japan on the Asaka Maru as most of the men from this ship went to the Osaka camps, including Amagasaki, under Captain Hall . On his LQ, he has referenced Lt Michael Evans (5th B&H) as his last camp leader at Nagoya, who was Group 4 and survived the sinking of the Kachidoki Maru.

    TBRC will be able to help further if he has any more hospital records in Thailand, however, was not seen in the Tha Khanun records.
     
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  11. Extreme

    Extreme Tha Khanun explorer

    From Lt Michael Evans account in the final stages of the war in Japan.

    "The earlier parties went North of Tokyo to Sendai area, and soon learnt how cold Japan could be in winter. No. 2 Group was mainly near Osaka, save a few, of whom Sgt. Winstanley was one, members of Capt. Nigel Evans (Manchester) 2 Group Parties who survived two sinking’s, one by torpedo and one by bombs.

    To see Japan in the closing stages of the war was a revelation. With her people destitute and lacking in every conceivable commodity, we could understand why her soldiers were sent chalky tooth-powder and a paper fan as their comfort parcel from home. With the standard of living of her people unbelievably low, her factories and methods inefficient, her houses really paper walled and sanitation

    (Page 3)

    Almost non-existent, we finally learnt the futility of expecting conceptions on a par with our own.

    By the time we arrived conditions in Prison Camps had been very considerably improved. Even so it all depended on the individual Camp Commandant, and everywhere working hours were fearfully long and clothing and food equally short. Talking of food, the friends we left in Thailand will hardly appreciate the luxury of a very rare bowl of white rice. There was almost no supervision so that some camps were very bad indeed, although the only directive issued apparently was that P.O.W. were not to be treated too well or too badly - according to an Osaka interpreter in his cups.

    One improvement should be recorded. Most prisoners in Japan did receive one or two Red Cross parcels that last year. In few Camps had they fared any better than we in Thailand up till then The extreme pleasure of receiving a complete parcel all to oneself is something very hard to appreciate now.

    Obtaining news was not so easy. Nevertheless it did come in and pretty regularly mostly by breaking down Japanese newspapers. These were fairly accurate with European news and rather obvious with their misrepresentation of Eastern affairs. The gradual and steady increase in " B ni-ju-ten" raids helped morale, which was always liable to be lower in these filthy wooden prisons than in Thai jungle. Personally I shall never forget the first carrier raid on Tokyo. Just as our Omori working parties were leaving one Friday morning the sirens went. Almost simultaneously American B.29’s started peeling off right over our heads. We had a glorious ring side view of the dive bombing of a nearby airfield.

    As so many of the camps were inside the cities the small number of P.O.W. air raid casualties is amazing. Partly due to the use of incendiaries rather than H.E., but also to the reconnaissance which had pinpointed camps to a remarkable degree. On a map I saw afterwards they were amazingly accurate.

    The end, when it came, was none too soon. The winter in Japan would not have been pleasant and there is little doubt that the fanaticism of the army was unbroken. Whether there was sufficient munitions and petrol to supply the forces is rather more doubtful and each succeeding B.29 raid was completely wiping out more and more of the cities. But instead Hiroshima provided another and an easier way and the blossom was finally shaken from the fruitless cherry trees.

    "Recovery" of prisoners in Japan took place about the 6th September and was accomplished very fast. In many places ex P.O.W.'s had already "taken-over" and movement aided by the Swiss Consul's representatives was smooth and fast. Most of us in Tokyo and Nagoya areas came in by destroyers to Tokyo bay to see the Allied Fleets at anchor in all their mighty sway. From Tokyo to Manila by ship and plane and then homeward bound via America, some by way of Vancouver and Halifax, some San Francisco and New York. Altogether a wonderful trip home and, speaking for those who sailed in H.M.S. "Implacable" and crossed Canada by C.P.R., one made more memorable by the kindness of everyone we met en-route. And so home to England, four years almost to a day since leaving Liverpool.

    Jan. 1946 Michael J. Evans 5/16th Foot.
     
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  12. coldstreamer20

    coldstreamer20 Junior Member

    Hi Tim and Extreme,Many thanks for extra information(did not know this much was available) very much appreciated.Once again thanks to everyone who contributed, best regards Paul
     
  13. papiermache

    papiermache Well-Known Member

    On the IJA card the reverse of the home address side has the line beginning 19/6/18 meaning, as Tim said, 18th June 1944. Comparing similar text found at the Friends of the Dutch National Archives website which has many translated IJA cards rendered in to English (!), photos and typescript, the Japanese means:

    "Departed Singapore port for transfer to mainland Japan on 18 June 1944".

    This line does not often appear on IJA cards ( I have over 900 IJA cards relating to the Hofuku Maru.) The Asaka Maru is the likely ship ( which sailed on 4th July 1944 in convoy with the Hofuku Maru, aka Toyofuku Maru), as Extreme says. The Asaka Maru lay in the roads at Singapore for some considerable time.

    There is lots more information out there. I suggest you return to researching Thailand with the aid of the TBRC.

    John
     
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  14. coldstreamer20

    coldstreamer20 Junior Member

    Many thanks John
     

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