Can anyone tell me about A Squadrons action on the 13th and 14th May around Massa Di Vivo at 1944 Cassino, they were supporting 6th battalion The Black watch
Alan - as far as I am aware - the 6th Black Watch were in 4th British Division and Lothians were in 26th Armoured bde of 6th Armoured div - now on those dates was the prelimiaries to the Operation Diadem and not per se a Cassino battle - the Lothians and 17/21st Lancers were involved in the bridging of the Rapido with Amazon Bridge which was the subject of a recent thread just last week with 12th HAC and others all lined up to attack the Gustav Line with the 4th Div tasked to turn and assist the Poles coming down from the Monastery and 6th Armoured to push on with 78th and 1st Canadian Divs - "Mailed Fist" will give you a better account of this stage of the battle... Cheers
Thanks I'm reaching for a copy right now I know it's a stupid question but what does Hull Down mean ? Thanks again
Alan - Hull down is when a Tank is in action and is stationery - it is wise to have the "hull down" position this means that only the Turret with the gun is exposed to the enemy and can fire at the enemy without undue exposure to his gun against all of your Tank i.e - the HULL - goes back to the Naval term for the whole body.... Cheers
Sorry more questions Regimental organisation of 2nd Lothians I've read that the norm was 3 Squadrons with 4 troops each and 3 tanks per troop? but at Cassino for some reason 1,2 and 3 troops had 4 Tanks is that right? I've managed to make that sound complicated, hope you understand what I mean Thanks
Tom Re: the action above. Mailed Fist doesn't go into much detail. But some gret stuff in Driver Advance!
Alan - the NORM for all Armoured brigades was with THREE squadrons of 4th Troops x FOUR Tanks per troop - this was more evident in NWE when they introduced the NORM to be two Shermans with 75mm guns AND two Firefly's (Sherman )with 17 pounders - we never had such luxury - but perhaps they had the new 76MM......similar to 17 pdrs Similarly Army Tank bdes had three squadron of FIVE troops of THREE Tanks each- then after Cassino they came up with Two Churchills and Two Shermans - that was not popular but they insisted and so my regiment insisted that we stay with Three Churchils per troop - with ONE troop having ONE 95mm bombard -Mk5CS this was a good move - as it gave us that little bit extra fire power. Then at near the end of the war ALL Tank Bdes were made into Armoured bdes - with SOME being made into Engineer Armoured with all sorts of Hobo's funnies - one battalion in 25th Tank bde - 51 RTR - was converted into an Engineer / Armoured and did a fine job at the Argenta gap..now of course they all have the heavy jobs like Challenger II and they can be frittered away where needed - in troops etc .. cheers
Unsurprisingly they have 3 war diaries at Kew for the Italian campaign 1944 to 1946. Here's the 44 one: WO 170/841 2 Lothians and Border Horse Yeomanry 1944 Jan.- Dec. There's also another three diaries listed as A, B and C Squadrons each covering a month during 1944. Two in May and one in October. Cheers Andy
I've just posted the entire month of May 1944 2L&BH War Diary on one of the threads here. Here are the 2 days you are interested in. There is also an important appendix on these dates, which I will post here shortly Hereward Admin for 2nd Lothians and Border Horse Yeomanry Facebook Group 13 May 0045 Sqns moved forward to prepare to cross R Rapido in early hours of the morning. A Sqn with 6BW to cross first, followed by C Sqn with 2RF. A Sqn to cross AMAZON Bridge at 0500hrs and go South down QUEEN STREET, then turn right and attack with C Sqn on their right (C Sqn would cross at 0600hrs). In reserve, B Sqn and 1RWK were to remain on East side of river until called forward. 0730 A Sqn across AMAZON by 0730hrs. Very misty, visibility practically nil. Everything went well until A Sqn reached line of R Pioppeto, which they could not cross. Scissors bridge with them knocked out. 0855 The plan was then changed and they were ordered to swing right, with C Sqn still on their right, and go for BLUE or DEE. The objective was reached at 1130hrs. 1200 B Sqn and 1RWK ordered to cross Rapido. They had some difficulty as they were fired on by MGs while crossing AMAZON Bridge, but reached forming up area. In the afternoon enemy tanks and SPs were encountered, causing some casualties among A and C Sqns. Heavy mortar and shellfire also experienced. Monastery Hill was smoked as effectively as possible but needed continual watching. Sqns harboured at last light in area 858178. One tp of A and C Sqns were at immediate call, and the remainder at emergency notice. Ordered to move back to position at first light. Killed in Action 190455 W/Lt H W Robb C 7867358 Tpr Drummond, H W C 7894146 Tpr Lawrie, W C 7955734 Tpr Mitchell, G W C 7958243 Tpr Smith, A L C 7955188 Tpr Shaw, D A A 7949461 Tpr Tow, K A Wounded in Action 7955645 Tpr Lowton, F C 5494566 Sgt Buckle, F C 14541284 Tpr Bennett, G C 7894168 Cpl Paterson, G P C 7894187 Cpl Tarrant, T C 7926740 Tpr Fairbrother, A A 6027249 Tpr Haysell, E A 7955095 Tpr Cross, W HQ 14395864 Tpr Meredith, H C 14272430 Tpr Scott, R P C 14538689 Tpr Beresford, A C 2049906 Tpr Willis, R B 14 May 0600 A and C Sqns started to move back to original positions, visibility varied from 5-200yds during the morning. Snipers, MGs and mortar fire made things very difficult. B Sqn started to advance on the left of A Sqn, but ran into a bog. 0755 OC A Sqn killed (Maj T E Robb). Enemy counter-attack developed throughout the day but was repelled on every occasion, but with some loss to A and C Sqns. Close fighting tactics used by the enemy, sticky bombs and PIATs used. 1200 Only 24 effective fighting tanks left in the Regiment. C Sqn, with four tanks left, were forced to give ground slightly, their Sqn Ldr, Maj W S Thorburn MC, being killed. Killed in Action 41661 T/Maj W S Thorburn MC C 129150 T/Maj T E Robb A 262382 W/Lt C M Joyner [?] C 7894145 Tpr Kidd, C W C 7258322 Tpr Thomas, J A 7209227 LCpl Waite, R G A Missing Believed Killed 284388[?] W/Lt McLeod, M C Wounded in Action 7924986 LCpl Maguire, O C 14330640 Tpr Cox, C C 7959636 Tpr Harber, J C 7063394 Tpr Townsend, W C 14241345 Tpr Smith, L C 7933286 Cpl Fleming, D C 14400982 Tpr Smith, G C 328936 LCpl Patrick, W B 7961419 Tpr Guy, N A 7954359 Tpr Haddock, G HQ 7942304 LCpl Kidd, K C 7891952 Sgt Cockburn, A A 7890270 Tpr McKigan, D A 14277155 Tpr Wadley, N A 7960641 Tpr Rutherford, R A 14411064 Tpr Foster, S A 7896730 Tpr Giblin, W A 7958931 Tpr Haley, A A 240675 W/Lt J Patterson MC A [Many of the entries in the above casualty list are smudged and very difficult to read - there may be errors] Attached at Appx G and H are A and C Sqns' accounts of the operations on 13/14 May [see end of May Diary].
Here is the Apendix I hope this helps, Hereward A Sqn War Diary May 1944 (Appx G) Alife, Italy 11 May 1900 Left Regtl area at Alife and moved to conc area about five miles East of Cassino. 12 May The Sqn spent the day in the conc area and various recces were made. The tanks suffered no ill-effect from the long approach march. 13 May Before first light the 2IC moved the Sqn to a forward conc area East of AMAZON, while the Sqn Ldr went to meet the CO of the BW (Lt Col Modders). Owing to the darkness and ground mist, the marrying up of the Sqn and the Bn was very difficult, particularly as the provost had been unable to mark the route all the way. Contact was made with a sqn of the 17/21L, who said that AMAZON was not completed and the whole operation would be delayed. The Sqn was lined up along a railway embankment and mysterious MG fire was encountered. Rumour was very rife. The bridge was completed and we crossed at about 0800hrs. Progress was fairly slow and the first obstacle was a scissors bridge. The Valentine had laid the bridge but, as it was moving off, it was shelled and caught fire, with the result that the bridge was blocked and so useless. The direction was changed right and the first objective reached without incident. As no wheeled vehs could get within one mile of the tank harbour, Honeys and 1Tp Shermans were used to ferry supplies up from AMAZON. The operation was very difficult and it was necessary to use the track, which was blocked by many vehs on the same mission. When the tanks reached the Amn Pt a mortar shell landed on one of the Sqn A1 amn vehs, setting fire to three altogether. Fortunately the enemy did not shell the surrounding country, although the loading of supplies was carried out in daylight conditions, owing to the blaze. Killed Tpr Shaw, D A A1 Ech Tpr Tew, K A1 Ech Cpl G Boag and Tpr C Bacon made a very gallant effort to rescue Tpr Tew from his blazing lorry. 14 May 0500 The Sqn moved off to support the BW [in an] attack on the next objective. The enemy used smoke, which mingled with the heavy mist, reducing visibility to a few yards. The leading troops (3 and 4 Tps), guided by the leading coys, succeeded in reaching the objective. The rear troops (1, 2 and SHQ) were out of touch with the infantry and were quite unable to make contact with them, or find the objective. The mist continued until about 0900hrs. At about 0800hrs the Sqn Ldr (Maj T E Robb) dismounted from his tank to recce on foot and was shot by what appeared to be a sniper's bullet. He died very shortly after, in his tank. The feeling of being completely lost and quite unable to do anything at all, coupled with the death of the Sqn Ldr, reduced the Sqn to very poor spirits. The 2IC (Capt E G Hervey) took over command of the Sqn. His only available force appeared then to consist of two control Shermans, one Gunner OP, one Honey and one carrier, who seemed to trail along behind, but no one knew to whom he belonged. As the mist cleared sense of direction returned and 1Tp (Lt R Crichton) was found to be not very far away. Almost at once 2Tp appeared as well. This was little short of a miracle, as not one man knew where he was; and every few minutes the rear link was informing his Sqn Ldr that an attack was coming in. As the mist lifted more we saw B Sqn hull down on a ridge only 100yds away. Knowing our correct position was on their right, we contacted Maj C E Montagu Douglas Scott MC, who put us in the picture. We then moved into hull down positions, where we stayed all day. During all this time OC 3Tp (Lt A C Angliss) and OC 4Tp (Lt J Patterson MC) were informing the Sqn Ldr that they were expecting a counter-attack on their position. Lt J Patterson MC was unable to say his exact position as he had been guided by the infantry through the mist. Almost at once Lt Patterson reported that the strength of the two troops had been reduced to three tanks commanded by himself, Sgt J S Burns MM and Sgt A A Cockburn The situation then became clearer and it was obvious that many enemy SPs and MGs had got in at the rear of the BW and were firing at 3 and 4 Tps and the BW. Due entirely to the clear thinking and courage of those three tank commanders, the remainder of the Sqn was able to move into a position and shoot up four SPs and two MGs from the flank, catching them completely by surprise. This kill did much to raise the morale of the previously dispirited Sqn, and was some consolation for the news that the three remaining tanks had been knocked out. It is known that the tanks, by clever handling on the part of Lt J Patterson MC, killed probably 100 Germans, and [there] is no doubt that their presence did much to encourage the BW in their very difficult defence. All our survivors returned with the highest possible praise for the fine work that the BW had done, and particularly the stories of the gallantry and leadership of their CO, to whom they had offered their assistance in a dismounted role when the tanks were lost. LCpl White, R G, Lt Patterson's gunner, was killed during this action. At about 1900hrs the Sqn moved to the area of the scissors bridge, having been relieved by A Sqn 16/5L. On reaching the approach to the harbour the A Sqn Ldr was greeted by the Second-in-Command of the Regiment, Maj G R Simpson, with an order to 'shoot some infantry on a hill from where you were this morning'. With the assistance of B Sqn, all our tanks reloaded with ammunition and returned to that area to make contact with the CO of the RWK. Thanks to so many 'SPLICES', the orders for the attack lasted two minutes and, within one hour of receiving the order from Maj G R Simpson, the Sqn was on the first objective. As we were using the same frequency as A Sqn 16/5L, the wireless was very chaotic. As darkness fell the Sqn withdrew to join the Regt, much to the disgust of the leading pls. Owing to the darkness and bad going, the tanks returned to the harbour using hand compasses, and also with the assistance of an accomplice already in the harbour, who fired occasional Verey lights. For this breach of discipline the accomplice prefers to remain anonymous. 15 May The Sqn remained in the same harbour all that day and D Coy Beds & Herts dug in round the tanks. Cpl W Lindberg, 2Tp, was killed by a mortar shell which landed in his tank while he was assisting in the recovery of another tank. In the evening Lt Angliss and his survivors from 3 and 4 Tps returned to the Sqn harbour area. 16 May In the late afternoon the Sqn moved to Vertechi. That night the Sqn Ldr was informed that the plan for the morrow would probably take the form of an indirect shoot on Piumarola. 17 May A Sqn moved out at first light, followed by RHQ and C Sqn. On arriving at a point South of Piumarola, A Sqn were sent off to work round to the right. Some 800yds short of the village an 88mm A Tk gun was seen and shot up almost at once. The orders for the manoeuvre were to take all precautions and proceed slowly. A short distance on, Sgt J Burns's tank was hit by an A Tk gun firing from the village, and caught fire. The crew got away to safety and Sgt Burns, quite unperturbed, went over to the Sqn Ldr's tank to point out the gun. At the same time OC 3Tp, Lt A C Angliss, reported there was a MkIV looking at him, 75yds to his right. Every tank in the Sqn loosed off a barrage so quickly that the MkIV was on fire within a few seconds. There was a lot of AP shot flying about and it was quite obvious that it was impossible for tanks to go anywhere near the village. The Sqn moved off very cautiously to the hills on the right overlooking the village. German prisoners began to appear and the Sqn pushed on to the next crest with difficulty, since the hill was heavily wooded and snipers appeared to be everywhere. At this time the strength of the Sqn was reduced to eight tanks. Running across the top of the hill was a track and, on meeting the track, a MkVI was reported on the other side. Owing to our reduced strength it was impossible to be very bold, but a plan was made for 1Tp (Lt R Crichton) to close on the MkVI, supported on the right by 3Tp (two tanks + one SHQ tank) and on the left by 2Tp (two tanks + one SHQ tank). Lt R Crichton reported the re-appearance of the MkVI, on which he scored a hit. As 3Tp moved to support him, Cpl J Hackett received a direct hit on the turret of his tank which killed him, but the remainder of the crew got away under smoke. The tank that hit him was later confirmed as a MkIV Special. Nothing further happened until about 1700hrs, when the Sqn was ordered to support a battalion of 78th Div in an attempt to capture a group of farm buildings about a half-mile to the right. The Sqn was taking no further chances that day and, from the moment the first tank moved across the track, every single gun, including bow guns, kept up a continual fire and laid a smoke screen on its left, since the flank appeared quite unprotected. This concentrated fire proved successful to the extent that, at the end of the attack, about 50 prisoners came in and, on inspecting the hedge on our left on the following day, at least 50 German corpses were found; it is known also that there were many killed and wounded on the objective itself. Lt J W Fulton was knocked out by a bazooka-type weapon at a few yards range. The Sqn returned to the track, disregarding the harassed CO of the infantry battalion, who seemed rather uncertain of the limitations of a Sherman tank. The operation was entirely successful and the infantry walked into their objective from the right. During the day Lt R McC Robertson, who was ferrying supplies in his troop of Honeys, was unfortunately killed by a mortar shell while taking cover in a trench. Tpr Davies, K of 1Tp was killed in the same trench, having baled out from his tank earlier in the day. At darkness the Sqn moved back to Vertechi to harbour with the Regt. 18 May The Sqn remained in the same harbour. 19 May At first light the Sqn moved towards Aquino with the remainder of the Regt, to be in a forward position ready in the event of a breakthrough of the Adolf Hitler line. 20 May The Sqn moved with the rest of the regt to an area South of Piumarola for 48hrs rest, and called up various units of the Echelon.
Tom is absolutely correct, he was there! At the end of the North African Campaign the Squadron and Troop identification decals were improved and an additional tank added to the troops, which may have made a big difference in the Italian Campaign - although their loses were still substantial. The new decals were applied to the tanks by Trooper Frank Dennis Gent, who sadly passed away 2019-03-17. https://www.facebook.com/groups/217119904993/search/?query=frank&epa=SEARCH_BOX
