I've saved this to my favourites and will come back to it when I've unpacked. I should be able to tell you the German Div. The Bde or Div War diary may hold the answer to the unit as regarding the captured Germans as these files tend to have Intel pages and there maybe a piece on these PoW's. Andy
Ref the Missing Personel File for the Inniskillings, its held at the National Archives in London: WO 361/101 British Expeditionary Force, France: The Royal Inniskilling Fusiliers; missing men. 15th to 17th May 1940 Advanced HQ and Recce parties moved into Belgium on the 15th followed by the rest of the 5th Division on the 16th. Its destination was Hal and to take up defencive positions on the River Seine. For this move No.8 RMT Company RASC was assigned to move the division forward. The last part of the move was greatly impeded by the flood of refugees coming from Louvain and Brussels. The Division arrived in the Hal area during the evening of the 16th and began digging in along the River Seine and the Brussels canal, 17 Bde were on the left, north of Hal with 2 RSF on the right, 6 Seaforth on the left and 2 Northants in reserve, 9 Field Regt and 207 AT Bty in support. 13 Bde were on the right with 2 RIF in Hal itself, 2 Cameronians south of Hal and 2 Wilts in reserve. The Bde had 97 Field Regt in support with B Coy 9 Manchesters, 205 AT Bty and 252 Field Coy RE. By 1000 hrs on the 17th the division was dug in and ready, the right flank of the division caused some concern as there was a 2 km gap between it and the neighbouring 2nd North African Division. Part of 2 Wilts was brought forward from reserve to patrol this gap. Throughout the day the divisions that had been manning the Dyle Line withdrew across the river and canal on their way to the River Dendre and as the last of the rear guard passed over the bridges in the division area they were blown. Recce elements of the advancing German Army came into contact during the afternoon and were engaged by 2 RSF and 2 RIF, some attempts were made to infiltrate across the river but these were frustrated by small arms and artillery fire. As the main body of the enemy arrived, corps artillery came into action, with 5 and 63 Medium Regiments firing on the approaching columns. With the divisions of I and II Corps on their way to the Dendre 5 Division was to withdraw that night. Philson-BEF Orbat
The best I can find at the moment regarding the German units they were fighting is 3 or 4 Panzer Division from 16 Panzer Corps.
Hello, Thanks Drew for this information. This helps allot. Can you tell me what for unit No.8 RMT Company RASC was? The best I can find at the moment regarding the German units they were fighting is 3 or 4 Panzer Division from 16 Panzer Corps. I don't think that the German unit was a Panzer Division. I'm almost sure that it the 31. Infanterie Division that past through Halle. I found some maps on the web and one map clearly shows the 31.ID at Halle. Lage West/1940/May/Lage 17-May-1940 Regards Koen
Reserve Motor Transport Company-Royal Army Service Corps. I expect you know that nearly the whole BEF was mechanized in France and as well as units having their own transport there were RASC units deployed who's role was to move troops from A to B.
Reserve Motor Transport Company-Royal Army Service Corps. I expect you know that nearly the whole BEF was mechanized in France and as well as units having their own transport there were RASC units deployed who's role was to move troops from A to B. Was this unit attached to the 5th Div? Did they transport infantry and vehicles or only the infantry? Regards Koen
No the RMT's were distributed among the LOC Sub Areas and I suspect moved forward as and when required to move units. I've not seen one of their diaries so can't really add anymore than that.
Hello, This is an reply I got on an other forum. Hello Koen, I. and II./I.R.82 of the 31.Inf.Div. passed the area of Hal during this time. On may 18th the I./82 crosses the Senne at Hal near the railway station and moves into the mainly destroyed Hal and secures the town. Here they capture a british supply truck. Rejecting attakc by french troops and capture the first black enemy soldiers. /Christoph This confirms that the 31 Inf Division past through Hal. Regards Koen
Thats quite detailed-All my maps (In books are quite poor with sweeping arrows and no detail) I don't suppose he said what his source was?
Hello, They still didn't replied me on the other forum about the source of their information. So my search hid a wall. Could the Bde or 5th Div War diary contain more information about the German POW? Regards Koen
Hello, Can somebody tell me what kind of lorry was used as Cook lorry? This is possibly the kind of lorry the Germans captured at Hal. Regards Koen
I can't help with the Lorry (Rich Payne etc will probably know). Ref the POW's they may get a mention in the Div or Bde diaries in intelligence reports assuming there are some in the Div or Bde files.
I bought the Division's history. It mentioned Halle and the attack by the German scouts. This attack was countered by Major Butler and some troops. I also read the war dairy of the mayor of Halle. It mentions the movement of troops and heavy weapons. He also describes how Lance Corporal Lynas Mark was shot through the helmet by a German soldier. He was the second soldier of the 5th ID to by killed by a German soldier in WW2 (Norway not included). the first KIA was Sgt Gildea Thomas James. Sgt Gildea was killed while he was on patrol on the outskirts of Halle. PSM McDaid and the rest of the patrol where made POW. The two soldiers are buried side by side on the cemetery of Halle. Regards Koen
Hello, Can somebody tell me what kind of lorry was used as Cook lorry? This is possibly the kind of lorry the Germans captured at Hal. Regards Koen Koen, I didn't see this question at the time, for which my apologies. Andy has recently drawn my attention to it. I assume that you refer to a lorry operated by the RIF ? According to the old Trux Models BEF pages, the catering establishment of an Infantry division was as follows :- 2x Serjeant Cooks 10x Cooks 2x Officers' Mess Cooks 2x Serjeants' Mess Cooks Transport was divided between seven 30cwt GS lorries - although these carried equipment, they were not specially outfitted. The 30cwt 4x2 GS lorry was the standard BEF transport and was only later replaced by the larger 3-tonner. If we exclude civilian impressed vehicles (and they are possible) then they are likely to have been Bedford OXDs, with a possibility of Austin K30s or Commer Q2s
Or Morris CDFs. But I suspect that your list is the catering establishment for the HQ of an Infantry Division. 14 cooks would be hard pressed to cater for a whole Division! Chris
Or Morris CDFs. But I suspect that your list is the catering establishment for the HQ of an Infantry Division. 14 cooks would be hard pressed to cater for a whole Division! Chris Whoops, I slipped up - typo - I intended to set 'Battalion' - the post was referring to the 2nd R. Inniskilling Fusiliers.
I'm trying to find out the names of the 2nd RIF soldiers that got captured in Halle. I searched the battalions war dairy and the missing men file but could not find that much. So my last hope are the Liberation reports of the soldier that got captured. Unfortunately the only names that I found are PSM McDaid and L/Cpl Graham. Would it be possible to find out the other names by looking at the dates that the soldiers where captured or is this an impossible task? Regards Koen
