24th Lancer transfers to the 4th7th RDG

Discussion in 'RAC & RTR' started by Ramiles, Jan 16, 2022.

  1. Ramiles

    Ramiles Researching 9th Lancers, 24th L and SRY

    24th Lancers transferred to the 4th/7th Royal Dragoon Guards...

    Captain Alfred Claud Hawkins - wia first with 24th L, then later with 4th/7th RDG.

    FB_IMG_1642350641061.jpg

    Captain, the Rev. Mark Green, MC. (attached 4/7th RDG)
    Re: Captain The Rev. Mark Green - attached 4th/7th Royal Dragoon Guards, late 24th Lancers

    FB_IMG_1642350809156.jpg

    Lieutenant Evan Roland Thomas - (kia - 20d11m1944 - with "B" Squadron of the 4th/7th RDG).

    Lieutenant Robert Stanley Clement Jennings - (wia - c25d9m1944y - with "A" Squadron of the 4th/7th RDG).

    W/Sergeant Warrington, Clifford (Aggie) Victor - (kia - 27d8m1944 - with "B" Squadron of the 4th/7th RDG)
    https://www.cwgc.org/find-records/find-war-dead/casualty-details/2063535/CLIFFORD VICTOR WARRINGTON/

    A/Sergeant William Wilcox M.M.
    Recommendation for Award for Wilcox, William Rank: Serjeant Service No: ... | The National Archives

    Lance Sergeant McAuslane, Peter James - went first to 266 FDS - (wia - with the 4th/7th RDG)

    Lance Corporal Parr, Benjamin H.

    Lance Corporal Smith, C.T. - (Wia with "B" Squadron of the 4th/7th RDG - 3d10m1944).

    Trooper Brooks, L.R.W.J.
    Trooper Chadwick, Frederick "Fred"
    Trooper Clarke, A.J.
    Trooper Cranfield, A.F.
    Trooper Fairhurst, P.
    Trooper Short, D.M.
    Trooper Snow, O.J.
    Trooper Southcott, A.
    Trooper Upton, A. (Alf) G. (wia - "B" Squadron - 4th7thRDG - 19d11m1944)
    Trooper Whitehead, J.M. - (kia - "B" Squadron - 19d11m1944)
    Trooper Wilson, D.
    Trooper Witter, R.J. - (wia - "B" Squadron - 4th7thRDG - 7d8m1944)

    24th Lancers Regimental Nominal Roll and Postings August 1944

    4/7 royal dragoon guards | WW2Talk

    Re. Captain, the Rev. Mark Green, MC. (attached 4/7th RDG)
    Re: Captain The Rev. Mark Green - attached 4th/7th Royal Dragoon Guards, late 24th Lancers

    Re. Lieutenant E.R. Thomas...
    nb. on the Nominal Roll at 24th L disbandment as "R.E. Thomas"...
    24th Lancers - Roll of Honour
    (KIA 20/11/1944)
    https://www.cwgc.org/find-records/find-war-dead/casualty-details/2659653/THOMAS, EVAN ROLAND/

    Re. W/Sergeant Warrington, Clifford (Aggie)
    (KIA - 27d8m1944 - with "B" Squadron of the 4th/7th RDG): https://www.cwgc.org/find-records/find-war-dead/casualty-details/2063535/CLIFFORD VICTOR WARRINGTON/

    Re... A/Sergeant Wilcox, W. MM
    Recommendation for Award for Wilcox, William Rank: Serjeant Service No: ... | The National Archives

    Re. Trooper Whitehead, J.M.
    (KIA with "B" Squadron of the 4th7thRDG - 19d11m1944)
    https://www.cwgc.org/find-records/find-war-dead/casualty-details/2659742/JOSEPH MORGAN WHITEHEAD/
     
    Last edited: Jan 22, 2022
  2. Ramiles

    Ramiles Researching 9th Lancers, 24th L and SRY

    Below, top right is Albert (Alf) Upton (wia with "B" Squadron of the 4th7thRDG on 19th November 1944)

    Shown with him are his crew. The 24th Lancers pre-D-Day roll doesn't specify him as a driver, gunner or wireless operator, he may have been the co-driver / lap gunner, perhaps.

    Possibly an unknown 5th member of the crew is taking the photo, as they are standing in front of a well camouflaged 75mm - 5 crewed - Sherman tank, rather than a 4-crewed Firefly.

    20220122_055123.jpg

    FB_IMG_1642831093814.jpg

    One of these individuals (or holding the camera) may perhaps be

    Lieutenant Evan Roland Thomas - 311632
    nb. on the Nominal Roll at 24th L disbandment as "R.E. Thomas"...
    24th Lancers - Roll of Honour
    (KIA 19 or 20/11/1944) - died of wounds - possibly.
    https://www.cwgc.org/find-records/find-war-dead/casualty-details/2659653/THOMAS

    Another could be...

    Trooper Whitehead, Joseph Morgan - 14223533 (Age at death - 21 years)
    (KIA with "B" Squadron of the 4th7thRDG - 19d11m1944)
    https://www.cwgc.org/find-records/find-war-dead/casualty-details/2659742/JOSEPH MORGAN WHITEHEAD/

    Or they might have been in another "B" Squadron 4th7thRDG tank also knocked out that day (or the next - for Lt.Thomas) etc.
     
    Last edited: Jan 22, 2022
    Chris C likes this.
  3. mICHAEL uPTON

    mICHAEL uPTON New Member

    Albert George Upton was my Dad (he passed away in December 2014) and he was the gunner in the crew. He was twice injured the fisrt rtime in August 1944 and then more seriously on 19/11/44 in Tripsrath, Germany when his tank was hit by a Panzerfaust. He was ultimately evacuated by air to Wiltshire (Wroughton?) and then spent a considerable time in first the Manchester Infirmary and then Wolverhampton General. He had great respect for Lt E.R. Thomas his tank commander. The attached picture is the original of the above and I suspect was taken in Brunssum, the Netherlands, 1944.
     

    Attached Files:

    Rich Payne likes this.
  4. mICHAEL uPTON

    mICHAEL uPTON New Member

    Here's the picture
     
  5. Ramiles

    Ramiles Researching 9th Lancers, 24th L and SRY

    Re. The IWM Series...

    8th ARMD BDE INVESTITURE
    Object description - Original wartime caption: Sgt. W. Wilcox, 4/7 DG receives the MM.
    Taken by Sergeant Morris. Catalogued 5d12m1944.


    The photo production date / date photo catalogued seems quite different to the real date when these were actually given and received.

    Reliance on the IWM associated dates often seems tempting, but the difference between when they were taken and when they were catalogued can be surprising.

    Thursday 30th November 1944... 30d11m1944...

    4th7thRDG
    The C. in C. 21st Army Group (Field Marshal Sir Bernard Montgomery K.C.B., D.S.O., M.C.) decorated certain Officers and ORs of 8 Armd. Bde and 43 Div. at an investiture held at TREBEK in the morning. No. 7902643 Sergt. Wilcox W. "B" Sqn. was the 4/7th RDG man to receive an award - the M.M. for gallantry at RAURAY (in the Normandy beachhead) when serving with the 24 L. The Commanding Officer, Adjutant, Major S.R.M. Jenkins, the RSM. and a number of other ranks of "B" Squadron attended as spectators. Among others to receive awards were Brigadier G.E. Prior-Palmer (Comd. 8 Armd. Bde) – the DSO. Before the investiture a programme of music was played by the Life Guards Band. A2 and B Echelon were moved to a transit area near BRUNSSUM in the afternoon, very little details were made known about this move by higher formation and it was done at short notice necessitating a speedy "pack up".
     

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