Hi Brian and welcome to the forum. Sadly I don't have that diary yet (2/6) but I do have both books you mentioned although I've not read either yet. The Honour one I only quickley checked to ref a murder of three (I think) black soldiers at a cafe and there is a memorial near where is happened so I guess there is some truth in that incident. I agree though it does read weird in the first person like fiction. Any ideas when you plan to publish the book - I'll have a copy of the first one off the press. Regards Andy
Thank you both, err, when my boss gives me enough time to hide away and finish it. I'm not an academic historian, I teach television at the University of Chester, and as such this is more of a hobby. Joe Small was a second cousin of my wife and there are five or six accounts of his death ranging from the beaches at Dunkirk to the Lancastria but his grave is in St.Pierre dated 8th June, which must be wrong of course. When I started this, I was almost unaware of the actions after 3rd June 1940 but it's been fascinating. I have amassed an enormous amount of stuff, some of which I haven't had time to get translated, read, sort through etc. It's difficult because as you know, the British Army didn't segregate like the Yanks and as such there are no separate records relating to black soldiers in archives - and not being an 'official' military historian can make the going a bit tough on occasion. Thanks again, happy to be here.
Have you read Dunkirk 1940 by Tim Lynch? His book covers the labour battalions and although I got lost a little here and there following diffferent units in the book overall its very good I thought. If I remember correctly he covers some of the above in his book. I must say this is the first time I've seen a ref to a Black soldeir in the BEF. Out of curiousity I don't suppose you have a figure on how many went to France with the BEF do you? Interesting that he was in a Cavalry unit. I would think that black men would not be accepted into regiments like the Guards and Cavalry and be put into infantry battalions.
Welcome to the forum Brian. The 2/6 BEF diary is available at Kew. Here are the details: WO 167/736 2/6 Duke of Wellington's Regiment (West Riding) 1940 Apr.-June If you're interested I can photograph it for you @ 10p per page. Lee
Thanks everyone for your welcomes and replies. Drew, I'll have a look for the book you recommend. Joe Small was called up very early in the war - he was a mixed race young man, son of a ship's stoker from Sierra Leone and a white Liverpudlian woman. The draft was colour blind, yet I'm as surprised as you that he ended up in such a posh polo-playing regiment as the 10th Hussars. Several veterans remember him with some affection, including Norman Wisdom, who I think had to be wrong as I'm reasonably sure they couldn't have met, but I have come across references to at least two 'coloured lads' in the regiment as most veterans refer to them. Joe boxed, as many young black lads did, and he was a driver already in his civilian occupation, which may have made him attractive to the regiment. One story I have involves a black trooper being killed as he tried to rescue a driver from a knocked out tank at Huppy in May 1940, but I can find no records to substantiate this - veteran's memories being what they are, it's difficult. My dad would come out with some strange stuff on occasion - he was an AVRE gunner with the 77 Assault Sqdn at D-Day - I usually accept what I'm told unless I have enough evidence to the contrary. Total black population in Britain being probably less than 50,000 in 1939, if that, then Joe Small was indeed a rarity, but British and therefore entitled to treatment as such, unlike the many colonial troops who ended up in support organisations or labour battalions. I don't have figures because the army didn't keep them as far as I know, but if the 10th Hussars is any guide, then one or two per regiment? As Marika Sherwood, Institute of Commonwealth Studies, writes: "Black troops must have been in the military, otherwise why introduce the King’s Regulations imposing a colour bar in 1917, and the confirmation of this in 1941 by the Army Council Instruction 101 2 (c) which excluded all but ‘British subjects of unmixed European descent’?. Research by Ellis (2001c) has shown that that not only were there blacks in the military, but that on discharge they and their often white wives settled in the UK" I think she is referring to a bar on black men becoming officers, but of course they did become officers, although there were worries about them having authority over white troops. It's often very difficult to cut through the ideological lines on this question as there are many axes to grind.
Bit late, but have recently returned from 3 day trip to France with a friend who speaks better French than me. Met a great local historian from St.Pierre du Vauvray, M.Fermanel, who has researched the fighting in June 1940. We walked around the village for 6 hours and he gave me a completely new angle on the fighting than I had gleaned from the previous British and French accounts. The Germans crossed the river at about 1am on the 10th June and by all accounts (M.Fermanel had interviewed veterans and townspeople, now all dead) it was a very violent affair. The town was mostly deserted the night before, yet still, five French civilians were killed - one believed executed by the Germans. It took the Germans - mostly Infanterie Regiments 18 and 31 - until about 8 or 9am to secure the vilage and the road out, which was strategically important as it's the only road to Louviers for miles and there are steep cliffs on either side. He reckons most of the fighting took place down in the village and all the English dead of the 10th Hussars - and of the Germans, were found in the village, most on a narrow front between river and railway. We also visited some trenches above the village that he claims were dug by the British prior to the fighting. According to Tim Lynch's book, which Drew was kind enough to refer me to and send me a map from, C Company of the 2/6 DOW were based in the village. The only dead of 1940 buried in the cemetery are 10th Hussars, whose bodies were buried where they lay by the townspeople(an act not encouraged by the Germans) and then reburied in the cemetery in August (there were German dead but many of them were killed in the river and the 8 that were buried in the cemetery were reburied in a concentration cemetery south of Evreux after the war). I still haven't managed to see a copy of the DOW war diary. I know that the 10th Hussars war diary was actually written after the war by officers of the regiment. I have read accounts of the fighting by Tim and others (Karslake) and I'm guessing that they did most of their fighting on the road above the village. There are mentions of this and their being relieved by tanks (of the 10th Hussars or of the 'composite regiment'?) which had come up from Louviers. Does anyone know if they took casualties here? I've visited and put some wild flowers on the graves of the men buried in Venables, but I don't know of other casualties on the 10th June. Any light shed would be welcome - and of course any info I have I'd be welcome to share if it's relevant.
Cheers Brian, Interesting about the Germans crossing the river at night. Its the first I've heard of the Germans fighting at night in 1940. When you say casualties, what unit and date are you talking about. I have all of the above mentioned diaries so I'm happy to do a look up for you. Regards Andy
Hi Andy - it's the 2/6th Duke of Wellingtons I'm interested in. I wrote a much longer reply but the forum chucked me off so I'll write a Word doc and send it, but quick reply. C Company of 2/6 DOW were in St.Pierre 9/10 June. M.Fermanel reckons it was heavy fighting and I'd be interested in any accounts of that from DOW perspective. Night attack? Grossman, historian of 6 Infanterie Division has attack starting at 0150 and troops of I.R.37 through to the main road above village by 0700 but village not secure until 0900. M.Fermanel reckons night attack to lessen advantage of defenders (British were only lightly armed but French had artillery support up to 220mm) who could fire down on attackers, who had to funnel in to the village as the only exit road for vehicles led out of there and it was hemmed in by steep cliffs. I'll be in touch in more detail, Thanks Brian
Drew, you are a star, thank you for that - I will reply properly when digested and type up my account of the St.Pierre action in full. You don't by any chance have the next page for the 10th June? I'm interested that C Company don't recall at any time meeting elements of 10th Hussars?
I have both and the Dukes Regimental History....Forgive me if I don't post soon. If I've not posted by the week end drop me a PM Sunday morning (My research day) and I'll put some more info on for you. Cheers Andy
I have both and the Dukes Regimental History....Forgive me if I don't post soon. If I've not posted by the week end drop me a PM Sunday morning (My research day) and I'll put some more info on for you. Cheers Andy Thanks very much for that Andy - I have a few ideas about why they didn't appear to meet up, but am on my research day today and having a good read around.
And if I'd read more closely instead of being excited I'd have seen that you had included 10th June, thanks again. I'm off to have a coffee and do a transcript from screen grabs. Regimental history would be great - speak soon.
Is anyone aware of any photos available of these bridges pre or post 1940. Presumably the bridges remained damaged until rebuilt by RE Coys in August 1944.
vieilles vues 3ème série ( 10 vues ) | L'écho des coteaux Saint Pierre du Vauvray Photos et cartes postales anciennes de Saint-Pierre-du-Vauvray, 27430 : Nouveau Pont en ciment armé - Longueur 131m 10 - Largeur 8m - Flèche 30m - Le plus grand pont du monde - Inauguré le 14 October 1923, par M. Millerand, Président de la Répub Le Pont de Saint Pierre du Vauvray | Vivez Saint-Pierre Pont de St Pierre was rebuilt almost identically in 1947 I believe - ref here Rohee, R. Les chantiers de reconstruction du pont-route de Saint-Pierre-du-Vauvray (2ème partie), in "Travaux", March 1948, n. 161 . The railway bridge at Muids which crossed about 2Km south was never rebuilt but you can see the stone piers still.
Is anyone aware of any photos available of these bridges pre or post 1940. Presumably the bridges remained damaged until rebuilt by RE Coys in August 1944. Dbf might be able to help Pre-War. She has told me about a website that has pre war aerial photographs of France. I suspect there must be later aerial photo's somewhere from Recce's. I ordered the 10 Hussars history last night so I may have some more info to add in a week of so. There's also a bit in the Dukes history but I keep forgetting to post it all up on Sundays.
