Hello all, I'm looking for some information (Or even better, a war diary) for my uncle (Pte Alexander Gordon Ellis - 14436178) and his friend (Pte James Boyd - 14671322) who both joined the 1st Btn Black Watch age 18. They both died on 12th August 1944 at St Sylvain Woods and are currently buried next to each other at Bannerville-La-Campagne war cemetery. The only information my grandparents were told was they were manning a machine gun with a Canadian unit and succumbed to heavy mortar fire near St Sylvain Woods (I would presume they were trying to take the woods but unsure) I am looking to take my dad on a road trip next year to see his brothers grave one last time and it would be interesting to get any further information. One last question if i may, We have Alexs medals and possessions he had on him when he died, these consist of metal badges/cap badges uniform stripes and money - The strange thing is, these contain the wrong unit - Alex was in the Black Watch but these say Seaforth Highlanders - I would presume these were mixed up at the time and wouldn't have been his? Many thanks, John Ellis
This is the OC 1st Bn The Black Watch, Colonel Hopwood's account of the Battle for St Sylvain Woods. BATTLE OF ST SYLVAIN WOODS. On 10th August, the Battalion were still holding St Aignan De Cremesnil while the Polish Armoured Division and 152 Brigade had continued the advance on the left to Robertmesnil and Poussy respectively, and the Canadians had pushed forward on the right. On the afternoon of 10th August, when the Battalion was resting, an order was received to move that evening. The Commanding Officer attended a conference at Brigade at 1600 hours, where orders were given for an attack to be carried out that night on the woods beyond St Sylvain. The distance from St Aignan to the St Sylvain woods was approximately 4 miles, while the country between sloped gradually down to St Sylvain, which lay in the Muance valley. 2000 yards Southeast of St Sylvain a very definite ridge ran Northeast and Southwest, and on top of this ridge lay woods which were to be the Brigade objective. At 2100 hours the Battalion moved from St Aignan by march route to an assembly area Northwest of St Sylvain. On arrival in this area, detailed orders for the attack were given out. The general plan was for 7th A. & SH. to attack and capture the left-hand sector of these woods, thereafter the 1st Black watch was to move up immediately behind the 7th A. & SH. and attack and capture the right-hand sector. The order of march was to be “D” Company, Tac. Battalion Headquarters, “B” Company, “A” Company. On arrival behind 7th A. & SH. positions, companies were to swing right-handed and move along the forward edge of the wood until they reached the right rear position of 7th A. & SH. On arrival here, “D” Company had to deploy and move up on the right of the 7th A. & SH., taking over an area of wood approximately 300 yards by 200 yards. “B” Company then moved across the rear of “D” Company. This move secured our immediate front, and enabled the remainder of the Battalion, with the supporting arms and “A” Company in reserve, to move into position. Prior to the advance of the Battalion onto the objective, an artillery concentration consisting of four medium and three field regiments was to be brought down. Before going further, it should be stated that these woods which were coniferous, lay on the forwards slopes of the ridge running Northeast and Southwest of St Sylvain, and overlooked the entire advance of the battalion. The moon was well up by the time the advance across the open fields leading up to the woods started, but luckily there was a fairly heavy ground mist which gave the Battalion just the amount of cover it required. On the far side of the woods, the country opened out into flat uncut cornfields for a distance of some 800 yards. Beyond these cornfields there were more woods and thick hedges in the area of La Bu Sur Rouvres, before the country finally opened out into rolling corn land interspersed with small copses and the usual hedges up to Clatigny and St Pierre sur Dives. At approximately midnight 10/11th August, the 7th A & SH moved forward and succeeded in reaching the forward edge of their objective, thus giving sufficient room for the Battalion to move up for their attack on the right-hand sector. Our start line was the same as that used by the 7th A & SH and was marked out on the Southeast side of St Sylvain. At 0100 hours the Battalion with “D” Company and Tactical Battalion Headquarters leading, moved forward on its 1500 yards advance to the objective. Soon after starting, the artillery concentration was brought down for 20 minutes. After advancing for 600 yards, a few odd mortar bombs and some spandau fire started up from the left and as the situation regarding the 7th A & SH did not appear quite clear, contact was made with their command post which was found in a field 300 yards to the left of our axis. It appeared that the forward companies of the 7th A & SH had reached their sector of the woods, but it was not certain how far they had exploited through these woods. It was therefore decided to continue the advance and on arrival at the woods sounds of digging were heard which confirmed that the 7th A & SH had at any rate succeeded in taking the first part of their objective. The Battalion then moved right along the forward edge of these woods and on arrival at the right rear Argyll position, the leading company moved out to the right, deployed and advanced onto its objective which was captured in approximately 30 minutes. The next company (“B”) then moved out to the right of “D” Company and captured its objective, thus enabling the remainder of the Battalion with the supporting arms to move into positioned as planned while the reserve company moved out to watch the right flank. By 0430 hours, the Battalion was firm on the objective, having killed and captured some 70 odd Germans for the cost of 12 casualties. The enemy as at St Aignan, did not offer much resistance, though there was some odd spandau fire and an occasional grenade to start with. After this had been silenced however, the enemy either lay in their douvres awaiting capture or tried to escape. At 0430 hours, a certain amount of shelling and mortaring which grew in intensity, and which was to last for three days, started, and at first light (0530 hours) tanks from 33rd Armoured Brigade with self-propelled guns started to move into the Battalion area. The shelling during the three days occupation of the St Sylvain woods was quite the heaviest which the Battalion had experienced since El Alamein, and during this period the Battalion suffered on an average 20 casualties per day in spite of the fact that all the men were well dug in. Major N G A Noble, Officer Commanding “B” Company was amongst those wounded.
Hi John, Not much specific detail in the war diary I'm afraid (WO171/1265): 10 August 1944 Again quiet. Missing now only 2 men. Bn expected to move but no definite orders were through by 1400 hrs. 1600 CO called to urgent conference at Bde. Orders given for attack tonight on woods beyond ST SYLVAIN. Time programme issued. See appx. APPX ‘B’ 2100 Bn moved to assembly area by march route. 11 August 1944 0100 Moved off on Argyll axis. 0330 Had reached wood taken by Argylls and Bn had swung right D Coy first then B pushed through, followed by A who formed firm base round Bn HQ. 0430 Bn firm on objective with only some dozen casualties. At this time heavy mortaring and shelling, which was to last for three days began. All Coys now exploited forward and 64 P.O.W. were taken. Sgt Black, the excellent I Sgt was wounded. Major Kew [??] rejoined from hospital. 12 August 1944 Heavy shelling and mortaring. 13 August 1944 Another days heavy shelling. Major Noble was wounded and Capt J.A.R. Anderson, M.C. took over B Coy. 14 August 1944 1200 5th Black Watch attacked through us and 153 Bde came up on the left of the Argylls. From 1400 onwards all was quiet for us after the three most concentrated days shelling and mortaring that the Bn had encountered since Alamein, and which had cost us some sixty casualties. Altogether since Aug 8 we had ?? officer and 143 OR casualties. Regards Tom
His Army Numbers shows he enlisted into The General Service Corps. Recruits did their basic training with them & were then sent to where the Army wanted them . He may have been with the Seaforths & then onto The Black Watch. The Army moved men to where they were needed.
Thank you for this information, it really does mean a lot. After reading this, I did some further searching and came across an account by Major A McKinnon of the 7th Argylls that can be found below:- Operation "Totalise" account by Major A McKinnon | Account | 51st Highland Division Website This gives some further information regarding where the woods are located and the side 1st BW-B Company attacked (Right hand). From both accounts, it would seem that all three battalions suffered heavy mortaring capturing the woods for three days despite being dug in - This was what my grandparents were told what happened so it does match. Regarding the terminology in the report, do you know what these would mean (Highlighted in bold)? "Very shortly after crossing the S.L. pretty intense Spandau fire opened up from in front and on the flanks" "one complete Pl with Officer surrendered to 1 B.W" "the Coy strength by this time being one Officer and approx. 45 O.R.'s." " "B"Coy was ordered to send up one pl to support "A"Coy and shortly afterwards a Coy of 5 B.W. came under command and the whole of "B"Coy was pushed up to the woods behind "A"Coy." Many thanks, John Ellis
John, many thanks for getting this information together. My Great uncle (Charlie Brown, Number 1605542), who was in the 1st Black Watch, also died on 20th August 1944. I can help with the terminology S.L.= Start Line: Spandau fire = German Machine Gun Fire: Pl = Platoon: O.R.'s. = Other Ranks
Bookblue39, John has not logged in since January 2023, so he may not read this - unless he has flagged the thread. Next I will send him a message (PM), which you cannot do until you have posted x5.
OK, I just wanted to thank him for uncovering what happened to my great uncle. It is much appreciated
Hello, Thank you for the explanations, make the account easier to understand. It was interesting to read the accounts of the battles, such a shame the war diary is sparse for my uncle. Please let Me know if you find out any further information about the unit. Many thanks, John
Thanks for the reply. I have just requested my Uncles service record. That should give more detail on the company he was part of. From that, I may be able to get some more info on what happended to him.
