1911481 Sapper Hugh McCandless, Coleraine, Co L'derry - BEF & D DAY+1

Discussion in 'Royal Engineers' started by Dave Allen, Jul 9, 2011.

  1. Dave Allen

    Dave Allen Junior Member

    Hi All

    I am new to the Forum so first of all hello! I am about to visit Normandy and although a bit late in the day I have obtained my wife's fathers Service Book. I hoped it would give me enough information to visit the beach he landed on at D-Day... but unfortunately not despite a lot of internet reading and searching - I just hadn't realised how many different "units" of REs there were and how they were "attached" to regiments etc. Pardon my ignorance. I have attached images of some of the relevant pages from the Service Book to show you what details I have - but it leaves many questions.

    In summary (although I might have missed an important point)

    Hugh McCandless
    Enlisted in L'Derry January 1940
    Sapper - Royal Engineers - did "wet bailey bridging" training Apr 1945
    For the D of W Army (Duke of Wellington's??)

    Part of BEF - Dunkirk - 13/4/40 to 1/6/40

    July 1940 to June 1944: Where was he during this period - GB?

    B of A (What does this mean or am I misreading it??) 3/6/44 to 8/8/45 (embarked for NW Europe 3/6/44 - landed 7/6/44 - the day after D-Day)

    Middle East (Palestine?) 20/9/45 to 27/6/46

    Hugh survived the war but rarely spoke of his time during the war. Avril (my wife/his daughter) new that he spent a lot of time in Holland after D-Day. She also knew (as confirmed by his record) he was at Dunkirk and in Palestine but she also thought he was in N Africa although this is not mentioned in his service book. He was eventually discharged after a serious bout of TB and died 25 or so years ago.

    He did tell Avril (once only) that he had been a part of silent night time hand to hand operations and related the horror of it.. It would be great to know which "unit" he was actually in and who he was attached to.

    We would love to be able to go to the right beach to pay respects and if we don't get the answers this time we would certainly go back.

    All help most welcome

    Dave
     

    Attached Files:

  2. CL1

    CL1 116th LAA and 92nd (Loyals) LAA,Royal Artillery

  3. Dave Allen

    Dave Allen Junior Member

    Many thanks Clive

    unfortunately we have not had time to go to MOD as we only got hold of the Service Book this week. I tried cross-referencing the various RE companies and regiments but couldn't come up with a match to Hugh's service record... I thought it would all be som straightforward!

    Dave
     
  4. dbf

    dbf Moderatrix MOD

    B of A (What does this mean or am I misreading it??) 3/6/44 to 8/8/45 (embarked for NW Europe 3/6/44 - landed 7/6/44 - the day after D-Day)


    Hi Dave and welcome
    I can help you with this part at least:
    BLA = British Liberation Army

    Did any of his letters home survive?
    Did he mention by name any of his friends who he served with dying in action - these can be checked for in CWGC records - they might have a unit designation.

    Good luck with the rest As Clive has mentioned copy service records are the sure way forward - be prepared for a long wait, so best to apply as soon as possible.
     
  5. Dave Allen

    Dave Allen Junior Member

    Thanks Diane

    That is one thing sorted - B of A = BLA!!

    Was I right with D of W = Duke of Wellington?

    Thanks

    Dave
     
  6. RemeDesertRat

    RemeDesertRat Very Senior Member

    Thanks Diane

    That is one thing sorted - B of A = BLA!!

    Was I right with D of W = Duke of Wellington?

    Thanks

    Dave

    D of W could be DURATION OF WAR?
     
  7. Dave Allen

    Dave Allen Junior Member

    Now that would make far more sense! thanks RemeDesertRat

    Dave
     
  8. Steve Mac

    Steve Mac Very Senior Member

    Welcome to the forum Dave.

    I don't think the 'D of W' is 'Duke of Wellington's'. Only the 6th and 7th Battalion's fought in NW Europe, the former being broken up early in the campaign after proving 'not fit for purpose'; and they landed on the 11 June 1944 and this does not fit with your father-in-law's service. I believe the 'D of W' stands for 'Duration of War' i.e. the period of service he was signed up for.

    As Clive suggests, you need his service records to understand his personal sojourn through WWII.

    Best,

    Steve.
     
  9. BFBSM

    BFBSM Very Senior Member

    Welcome to the forum Dave.

    Consider contacting the Royal Engineers Museum, Royal Engineers Museum & Library, Gillingham, Kent, they may be able to assist you with some of the information you seek, or point you in the right direction.

    I have found that Regimental museum staff/volunteers try to help wherever they can, many are run by volunteers and it may take a little while for them to get back to you.

    The Service Records are the best way to start, and you should apply as soon as possible as stated in previous posts. The wait can be long 8 - 12 months.

    Good luck with your research.

    Mark
     
  10. Drew5233

    Drew5233 #FuturePilot 1940 Obsessive

    Hello and welcome to the forum.

    Any ideas who he was with in France during 1940? The was well over 200 Royal Engineer units surviving at one point or another with the BEF.

    Regards
    Andy
     
  11. Dave Allen

    Dave Allen Junior Member

    Thanks to all - please keep the info coming - I am off on July 11 and back 22nd and will be definitely pursuing this.

    Drew 5233 - unfortunately not - if I knew the unit/field company I might make some progress,

    Dave
     
  12. Wills

    Wills Very Senior Member

    King's Regs 390 (XVI)


    Extract from Kings Regulations 1940 with various amendments up to 1954.

    Para 390, Sec VI Transfer to the Royal Army Reserve and discharge from the Colours, sub para (xvi) Invaliding. Ceasing to fulfil army phsyical requirements (see para. 417 (f) (ii).


    Para 417 (f) (ii) When a soldier is invalided, the actual physical disability will not be specified on the certificate of service (A.F.B. 108), nor will the reason for discharge under para 390 (xvi) (a) or (b) be recorded thereon. The certificate of service will only show discharge as having been carried out under sub-para. (xvi) (a) or (b) "Ceasing to fulfil army physical requirements".


    I would not read much into this form of discharge - there was much talk in parliament about how soldiers, especially Territorials were discharged. To some it may appear it is a case of thank you, now off you go.
     
  13. Drew5233

    Drew5233 #FuturePilot 1940 Obsessive

    No worries - If you ID the unit or want any other help regarding the BEF just drop me a message as I don't look in the RE section that often.

    Good luck
    Andy
     
  14. ww2ni

    ww2ni Senior Member

    Welcome to the forum!
     
  15. Dave Allen

    Dave Allen Junior Member

    Finally after 13 months I have received my Father-in-law's details from the Army archives - I have gone through the documents plus those already posted and come up with the following timeline -

    Joined Londonderry 10-1-1940 and enlisted into No 1 depot Battalion Royal engineers based at Chatham with rank of Sapper (Concreter)

    14-4-40 Posted to BEF (RMAML not sure what this stands for) he was with 697 Company RE. Disembarked in UK on 1-6-1940.

    Between 1940 and 1944 he was variably based in N Ireland and GB with B and then E companies before joining 584 Army Field Company RE 15-2-1941. (upgraded to Fitter)

    3-6-1944 boarded transport for NW Europe - landed 8-6-1944

    Active in NW Europe until 8-8-1945

    Then Middle East 20-9-1945 until 27-6-1946

    GB from 28-6-1945 - discharged on medical grounds 28-1-1947.


    From what I have gathered 584 Army Field Company RE were a Suffolk Company and were aligned with then 15 (Kent) Corps. R.E and 297 Army Field Park Coy when in N Ireland.

    I have found the following from BBC WW2 Peoples war-

    Some months later the Corps moved to the Southampton area and constructed NL Pontoons (USA equipment). These were to be moved by sea to the Invasion beaches to construct floating piers - for D-Day.
    We landed in France in the middle of July.
    The Corps built the large floating bridges they had been trained for. The longest was the 'Sparrow' Bridge (so called after Sapper Sparrow who drowned during its construction). This was over the River Rhine at Xanten - 1,700 ft.
    In the last weeks of the War the SS destroyed Railway Bridges over the Emms Canal. It was essential to open this so that food and materials could be moved to the centre of Germany.
    The 584 (Suffolk) Army Field R.E. were moved from Breman to Munster to remove the bridges, which were like a 'V' in the canal.

    So more questions - am I right in thinking he landed at GOLD beach and if so In would be interested in finding out which route he was on into Germany (Low Countries I presume) and which engagements he might have been linked with. Similarly if there is more info on his Dunkirk escapades. Of course any other details would be greatly appreciated.

    Dave
     
  16. Drew5233

    Drew5233 #FuturePilot 1940 Obsessive

    Only one BEF RE unit that fits the bill.

    WO 167/1060 697 General Construction Company Royal Engineers Feb.-Sept. 1940

    Odd period of dates for the BEF.
     
  17. Drew5233

    Drew5233 #FuturePilot 1940 Obsessive

    BEF one above and one 584 Coy so far:

    WO 171/1651 584 Coy 1944 Jan.- Dec.
     
  18. Drew5233

    Drew5233 #FuturePilot 1940 Obsessive

    Spoke too soon...

    WO 166/3820 584 Field Company. 1940 July - 1941 Dec.

    WO 166/8240 584 Field Company. Jan-Dec 1942

    WO 166/12171 584 Field Company. Jan-Dec 1943
     
  19. Dave Allen

    Dave Allen Junior Member

    Hi

    Thanks to Andy for PMs - I have gone back to the documents and tried a bit more deciphering -

    Gone back to the documents - BEF is as previously stated. The exact dates company numbers etc are as below:

    NWE - 21st Army Group 5495/04 584 FC RE 3 June 1944 to 8 Aug 1945

    Home - "B" Company 2 (P) D.B. 9 Aug 1945 to 19 Sept 1945

    M East - 5/W452/45 20 Sept 1945 to 27 June 1946

    Home - C 136 - 28 June 1946 to 28 Jan 1947

    So it looks like he was drafted out of 584 FC in Aug 1945 -

    Cheers
    Dave
     

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