1877605 Lance-Corporal John Dorman CHISIM, RE attached HQ RSR: 19/11/1944

My uncle John Dorman Chisim died out in Athens. He was RSR..not sure what unit.
He died on November 19th 1944. Apparently killed by the ELAS.. as mentioned at the back of Jack Gages Book ' A Greek Adventure '
If anyone has any information on John or Photos. I would be grateful. I know that he is on the RSR Roll of Honour. Many thanks

 

Deleted as Lyn has started a new thread: John Dorman Chisim.

 

Thank you David. I had most of what you posted. I had the honour of visiting his grave out in Athens 7 years ago. I was just hoping that someone might have a photo or information as to what unit he was in.
I will try to do another thread.
Thank you for taking the time to reply, much appreciated.

 

Hello Ly.

When you have your new thread up and running I'll post some new information up for you.

Kind regards, always,

Jim.

 

Sorry I am being really dense. Where do I open a new thread .
Many thanks
Lyn

 

My Uncle John Dorman Chisim was RSR.
1877605
He died 19th November 1944 in Athens.
He was killed by the ELAS, as mentioned at the end of Jack Gages book ' A Greek Adventure'
He was buried out in Athens.
I would be very grateful if anyone has any information as to what unit he was with and any photos. I have one family black and white photo. I know he is on the RSR Roll of Honour.


https://www.cwgc.org/find-records/find-war-dead/casualty-details/2931942/john-dorman-chisim/
LANCE CORPORALJOHN DORMAN CHISIM
Service Number: 1877605
Regiment & Unit: Royal Engineers
Secondary Unit, Regiment: attd. H.Q. Raiding Support Regiment
Date of Death: 19 November 1944
Age 23 years old
Buried or commemorated at PHALERON WAR CEMETERY
Grave Reference: 21. A. 1.
Location: Greece
Additional Info: Son of Samuel David and Elizabeth Chisim.
Personal Inscription HE RESTS FAR FROM HIS NATIVE LAND

 

Not knowing what information you have I found a skeleton record with x2 B&W photos on: RSR - Chisim, John Dorman It includes his Service Number 1877605 and appears to be from the CWGC or L-Corp John Dorman Chisim (1921-1944) - Find a...

This states he was SAS: Roll of Honour - Perthshire - David Stirling and SAS Memorial - Doune

One of our members Gus aka gmyles is our in-house expert on Greece for that time.

Your uncle has not appeared here before. I have not read the Greek Civil War thread(s) and an online search for threads here using: "raiding support regiment" site:ww2talk.com found a lot. Reading those may help understand what the RSR did. You could narrow the search down to just those in Greece by adding to the search + "Greece".

Good luck.

 

Hello Lyn.

Please find below your late uncle's Royal Engineer casualty cards (images are of both fronts and backs of the two casualty cards; "Sheets I and II").

Your uncle was killed in action by a teller mine (a german made mine widely used throughout the war).

Given John was a Royal Engineer he was likely tasked with clearing and making safe any mines encountered. An onerous and highly dangerous task given the german frequency of booby trapping mines they had layed/set. He also could possibly have driven over the mine that killed him. It is no saving grace Lyn, no consolation, but your uncle's death is likely to have been instantaneous.

His service records may hold more detail as to the circumstances of his death, but I think this doubtful. The best chance of a definitive answer would be a contemporary account by one of his surviving colleagues.

Always remember, never forget,

Jim.









On Teller mines:

 

Here's the application card for your uncle's medals Lyn.

They were Despatched to Mrs M Shannon in Belfast in March 1950. Maybe a relative, a name that you could look into Lyn.

Kind regards, always,

Jim.

 

Likely the last from me this evening Lyn.

John's service records are held by The National Archives at Kew; and though a "closed" record they could be applied for, if you wanted to of course:

Name: J D Chisim . Service number: 1877605 . Date of birth: 17 November 1921 . | The National Archives

Kind regards, always,

Jim.

 

Thank you so much for this information Jim. Really appreciated.
There are records I have not come across before so Thank you.
Regards
Lyn

 

Mary Shannon was his older sister. My aunt

 

Good that John's medals went to a close family member Lyn. Thanks for letting me know, very much appreciated.

Kind regards, always,

Jim.

 

TNA record has been closed as the file does not show he died in 1944. You will need to ask them to review the file and supply his CWGC entry as proof of death. Others know more about this.

 

Thank you David. I will look into this. Says they are closed till 2037. Is that normal.
Thank you for your help.
Lyn

 

Lyn,

Yes, all service records are closed until IIRC 116yrs since their birth. TNA is following the MoD rules and given the number of files being transferred do not realise the person is dead.

 

Hello Lyn.

If you are interested in obtaining your late uncle's service records the sooner you start the process the better. It unfortunately will take months rather than weeks before you obtain anything more than an automated response from The National Archives at Kew, but at least the online process is fairly straightforward.

Using the link that I previously posted in the thread at #10 above, once you click on it it will take you to John's TNA service records reference page that will appear thus:



Click on the "Request a search of closed records" rectangle and the application page to fill in will open up.

It will allow you to attach files to support the fact that John was killed back in November '44 (a copy death certificate, or more straightforward in your case, evidence available
from the CWGC website) thus:



(Note: pdf. format attached below).

Once you have submitted your application the process (and again, the wait) will start.

Whichever path you decide to take, good luck with all.

Kind regards, always,

Jim.

 

Thank you Jim. Very much appreciated.
Regards
Lyn

 

Hi

The CWGC concentration reports states he was initially buried in Salonika.

RSR went into Salonika as part of SCRUMFORCE (Op Scrumhalf) on 05/11/44.

The main invasion force KELFORCE (Op Kelso) followed up on 08/11/44.

RSR Advance party (Capt Gage, Sgt New, Capt Munden) arrived in Athens 12 November.

RSR Main body arrived in Athens on board LST33 on 12 November.

So he may have been with the rear party when he was killed by the mine.

I don't have the RSR diaries for November 1944 so cant be sure.

Hope this helps

Gus

 

Thank you for this information. It gives an insight into what the RSR were doing.
I did read that some soldiers bodies were moved to the Phaleron Cemetry. Maybe this was the case for John. We have visited him grave in Athens. Very moving.
Regards
Lyn