Hi Does anyone have any photos or even better manuals on the Morris CDSW 18 pounder gun tractors? Period photos are usually the best source. I've found a couple on the BEF vehicles thread but any others would be great. The limbers seem to change and some guns are 18/25 but at this stage any information would help fill some gaps. There appears to be very little published info on these pre/early war vehicles. All help much appreciated, thanks Ben
They are surprisingly rare. I did look through my collection of books and photos etc but there is nothing. Mike
Ben, they certainly don't seem to have been common with the BEF. This is the only image (ex-ebay) that I have on file :- plus another burned wreck that looks to have been of the Bofors tractor variant.
Google Image Search returns a lot of pictures that look similar to the ones above but I don't know if any of them are the Morris CDSW https://www.google.com/search?q=Morris+CDSW&sa=X&biw=1366&bih=674&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&ved=0CBwQsARqFQoTCJzy0JPWk8kCFYYqJgodPEIH3Q
Rich, that's a picture I've not seen, thanks. Interesting div markings. This early body style is sometimes referred to as the toaster side due to the rack on the rear sides. It pre dates the bofors version which was used throughout the war. Google throws up mainly bofors tractor pictures. As well as trying to find pictures of the trucks the 18 pounder and limbers are of interest. The 18 pounder seems to be used with several types of limber plus of course the 18/25 gun. The Dragon below is very nice shot but again a later limber.
Ben, You'll recognise the formation sign as being the crossed-keys of 2nd Infantry Division as displayed on my Norton. It looks to me as if the marking next to it is the pre-war census number with thin dividing line above the ciphers. I'll have a look for limbers and guns...but I haven't classified them so it could take ages... A shame that it's a poor scan, but it should receive top marks for content :-
I have this one marked as 'Kemmel' presumably based on seller info. I'm still looking for a decent quality image...
Thanks Rich Another couple of new ones. Interesting in the last one, the vehicle in front looks like a CDFW, this was the truck I was driving earlier this year in Dunkirk. Also the first one seems to show the gun being towed with no limber and the tyres/wheels look to be the standard British type used at the time, not the taller skinnier type seen often on the Martin Parry conversion. All good Ben
There is some film which I have posted before of my Grandfathers film of his Garage repairing artillery tractors in 1943. It mainly shows Morris C8 Quad tractors and it does show an AEC Matador Artillery lorry having its engine repaired. However there is a brief glimpse of what I think is a CDSW Tractor for about 6 seconds from 4:24 to 4:30 of the film. See Links: http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x2ma1ay or http://www.archivesenligne.fr/EN/en/chronology/item/1943-War-Work
Hi Nick I've seen pictures of the CDSW towing the 18 pounder, I couldn't guarantee any of them to be specifically BEF (some obviously aren't). I have been sent a couple that I'll ask for permission to post on here, these show two CDSW's pushed into a canal with an 18 pounder or 18/25 pushed in next to each one. Is the one in post #7 an 18/25? The CDSW was specifically a tractor for the 18 pounder so it seems a little odd if they didn't tow an 18 and limber. Thanks Ben
From a Trux Factsheet, also on the Trux website at one time. The following Field Regiments RA served with the BEF 2 Regiment with 1 Division 24 X 25pdr 7 Regiment with 3 Division 24 X 25pdr 9 Regiment with 5 Division 24 X 25pdr 10 Regiment with 2 Division 24 X 25pdr 16 Regiment with 2 Division 24 X 25pdr 17 Regiment with 4 Division and 51 Division 24 X 25pdr 18 Regiment with 2 Division and 48 Division 24 X 25pdr 19 Regiment with 1 Division 24 X 25pdr 22 Regiment with 4 Division 24 X 25pdr 23 Regiment with 3 Division and 51 Division 24 X 25pdr 24 Regiment with 1 Division and 48 Division 24 X 25pdr 27 Regiment with 1 Corp 24 X 25pdr 30 Regiment with 4 Division 24 X 25pdr 32 Regiment with GHQ 24 X 25pdr 33 Regiment with 3 Division 24 X 25pdr 52 Regiment TA with 42 Division 24 X 25pdr 53 Regiment TA with 42 Division 24 X 25pdr 57 Regiment TA with 44 Division 24 X 25pdr 58 Regiment TA with 44 Division 24 X 25pdr 60 Regiment TA with 2 Corp 24 X 18pdr 65 Regiment TA with 44 Division 24 X 25pdr 67 Regiment TA with 1 Division 12 X 18pdr and 12 X 4.5” howitzer 68 Regiment TA with 48 Division 12 X 18pdr and 12 X 4.5” howitzer 70 Regiment TA with 52 Division 71 Regiment TA with 52 Division 72 Regiment TA with 50 Division 12 X 18pdr and 12 X 4.5” howitzer 74 Regiment TA with 50 Division 12 X 18pdr and 12 X 4.5” howitzer 75 Regiment with 51 Division 12 X 18pdr and 12 X 4.5” howitzer 76 Regiment with 51 Division and 3 Division 12 X 18pdr and 12 X 4.5” howitzer 77 Regiment with 51 Division and 4 Division 12 X 18pdr and 12 X 4.5” howitzer 78 Regiment with 52 Division 88 Regiment with 2 Corp 24 X 25pdr 91 Regiment with 5 Division 24 X 25pdr 92 Regiment with 5 Division 12 X 18pdr and 12 X 4.5” howitzer 97 Regiment with 2 Corp 24 X 25pdr 98 Regiment with GHQ 24 X 25pdr 99 Regiment with 2 Division 12 X 18pdr and 12 X 4.5” howitzer 115 Regiment with GHQ 24 X 18pdr 139 Regiment with GHQ 24 X 18pdr 140 Regiment with 1 Corp 24 X 18pdr The equipment of the three regiments of 52 Division is not known. I don't know if this helps at all. Lots of 18pdrs listed. 25 pdr were all MKI (converted from 18pdr). Pity it does not list tractors. Mike Apologies for wobbly columns. They are all right on my copy.
Thanks for that list, Mike. If the CDSWs were restricted to towing 18pdrs, then it would seem likely that the tractor in post #4 was serving with 99 Field Regiment (who had been transferred to 2nd from 48th Division as part of the February 1940 Regular / Territorial swap around). Les Freathy in "British Military Trucks of WW2" refers to 2nd and 3rd Divisions with the BEF having CDSWs but he doesn't state where this information came from. I have two images on file showing 99 Field Regiment vehicles. Both Morris-Commercials but no CDSWs....They displayed the Arm of Service marking '5'
Long time since I studied this subject but I do not think that the CDSWs were limited to towing 18 pdrs. I have a note from 20 years ago, and without attribution, that the four regular divisions going to France were largely equipped with them. These must have towed 25pdr MkIs. The policy was that field artillery would have 25pdr MkI towed by Quads, but in September 1939 there were not nearly enough Quads to fill the establishments. The available Quads were largely Guy Quad Ant. New production of course was entirely Morris Quad. Best figures that I can come up with are some 300 CDSWs available in September 1939. some 400 Guy available but not all by September. 10 Morris QW Quads. Delivery of Morris Quad starting in February. It seems unlikely that it would be possible to replace any CDSWs with Quads. A rough count gives some 40 Field regiments. Arithmetic was never my best subject but every tractor must have been deployed with none in reserve. As I say I no longer have any hard evidence to offer. Mike
