156 Battalion Parachute Regiment Arnhem

Discussion in 'Airborne' started by OgilvieJ, Jun 20, 2012.

  1. OgilvieJ

    OgilvieJ Junior Member

    Hello, I'm new to this, so if I break any rules, please forgive me.
    My father, John Ogilvie, was a member of 156 at Arnhem. He was subsequently separated from his unit during the battle in Oosterbeek. He volunteered to stay behind in one of the cellars to allow the members of the unit he linked up with to try and evacuate and was eventually captured. He told me that he was a prisoner in Hertzberg on Elbe for the remaunder of the war and was force marched west to avoid the Russian advance. I have tried a number of avenues to try and locate the name of the camp but have been unsuccessful. Could anyone help, please?
    Best regards,
    John
     
  2. Philip Reinders

    Philip Reinders Very Senior Member

    J. Ogilvie Army number 7936140

    Stalag 12A Army number 075325
     
  3. wtid45

    wtid45 Very Senior Member

  4. Paul Pariso

    Paul Pariso Very Senior Member

    Hi John and welcome to the forum.

    I'm not sure how much you know about your Dad and his time at Arnhem so if this is old news please forgive me.

    He travelled to Arnhem on the 17th September as part of the advance party for the 4th Parachute Brigade. He was in the same aircraft as Major Michael Page who was CO of the Headquarters Company of 156 Para. I have attached a couple of docs for you to look at.
    Interestingly one of them gives his army number as 2936140 and the other gives it as 7936140. The POW records show it as 7936140.

    All the best............ :)
     

    Attached Files:

  5. Philip Reinders

    Philip Reinders Very Senior Member

    Looks like he was the medic in the advance party , probably the reason he volunteer to stay behind.
     
  6. airborne medic

    airborne medic Very Senior Member

    From Delhi to Arnhem puts him as transferring in from the RAC.....I agree most medics numbers start with a 7 but most of the 'airborne medics' I've got numbers for don't have a 9 as second number..perhaps one of the experts on numbers could advise.....

    John,

    Are you aware there is still a 151/156 families association in existence? If you'd like details for them please contact me.....
     
  7. TomTAS

    TomTAS Very Senior Member

    Hi John,

    First off thanks for posting and welcome, I have looked in From Delhi to Arnhem and found this X11A 75325 HQ Coy if the records are right that is Limburg... John do you have a Photo of John that I could add to my collection please ?? Also the above Photo that Paul as added is from the MIA 156 Para file at PRO Kew John's name is in that 2 or 3 times more...

    Cheers
    Tom
    PS Just found another photo for you John
     

    Attached Files:

  8. OgilvieJ

    OgilvieJ Junior Member

    Hi, Philip,
    I've only just managed to find this page, so I apologise for the delay in replying. Thank you very much for the information. Best regards,
    John
     
  9. Philip Reinders

    Philip Reinders Very Senior Member

    your welcome John
     
  10. scotrudolph

    scotrudolph Junior Member

    I am searching for information on event that took place near the Hartenstein Hotel. It is referenced in Major Thomas' book entitled, "The Soldier". The short excerpt is on page 31 and there is a photograph on page 32. The excerpt reads, "...I also remember shooting a sniper out of a tree with my rifle, and when I looked at the fallen body it was that of a young woman of no more than sixteen."

    The purpose/reason for this query is that I have purchased the helmet of this alleged sniper from the 'Casque and Gauntlet' who obtained it from David Thomas who is Major Thomas' son. If possible, I am trying to identify what unit this young woman was with and what her name was to put a real person with this article of history. If you have any information, would you please post or email me? Thank You!
     
  11. Philip Reinders

    Philip Reinders Very Senior Member

    didn't you bought the storty!, I am still suprised that people buy these "arnhem" relics
     
  12. scotrudolph

    scotrudolph Junior Member

    didn't you bought the storty!, I am still suprised that people buy these "arnhem" relics
    Philip-Thank you for your opinion on the helmet and the insult (I guess). What do you know about Major Tony Thomas?
     
  13. Philip Reinders

    Philip Reinders Very Senior Member

    Its not an insult, its you common sense, I knew Tony Thomas well as I visited the reunions many years ago when they first started.

    But keep een open mind, Its never proved that exept for the Luftwaffe girls, that any women soldier fought with the troops at Arnhem, nor on the list a being killed in action, also not one of 16 years old, the other what prove do you have that of the hunderds of German helmets, that came from the Battlefield (I have 3 myself, but have NO idea to whom they belong to) that the helm you bought, was taken from the girl, who was a sniper and was killed at Arnhem, do you really think that when the troops withdraw, they would think, the hell with the other stuff, I go to the river, take a german helmet as a souvenir, I hope I can safely take it across the river.

    With all respect to the Veterans, but I have heard some nice stories troughout the 35 years of research about the Battle, which in some cases were big fat lies, and in other cases, the story was told so many times they would believe it.

    One example, the arnhem freaks will know of a photograph of a killed para, hanging on the fence at the area of Rhine Hotel, one and will not mention his name I met a Para .who claimed it was him, he was trying to get over the fence, the Germans shot him and he was taken POW, I told him nicely that it was a hell of story, but never told him he lied, as i had respect for him.

    To end this post, very nice what people tell you but it is very hard to prove, Arnhem is a big market for selling and when you believe ever salesman, who want to make big money 30.000 troops landed at Arnhem, and everything is a souvenir or was recenlty found at an attic in Arnhem, or in a shed in Oosterbeek.

    I have a couple of Arnhem souvenirs myself, which were given personally to me by the Veterans, and I can tell you that I have been in touch with many of them through out the years, but only a couple had something left.

    So I leave it up to you ofocourse, but unless give by Tony Thomas himself, I would never go for it.
     
  14. scotrudolph

    scotrudolph Junior Member

    Its not an insult, its you common sense, I knew Tony Thomas well as I visited the reunions many years ago when they first started.

    But keep een open mind, Its never proved that exept for the Luftwaffe girls, that any women soldier fought with the troops at Arnhem, nor on the list a being killed in action, also not one of 16 years old, the other what prove do you have that of the hunderds of German helmets, that came from the Battlefield (I have 3 myself, but have NO idea to whom they belong to) that the helm you bought, was taken from the girl, who was a sniper and was killed at Arnhem, do you really think that when the troops withdraw, they would think, the hell with the other stuff, I go to the river, take a german helmet as a souvenir, I hope I can safely take it across the river.

    With all respect to the Veterans, but I have heard some nice stories troughout the 35 years of research about the Battle, which in some cases were big fat lies, and in other cases, the story was told so many times they would believe it.

    One example, the arnhem freaks will know of a photograph of a killed para, hanging on the fence at the area of Rhine Hotel, one and will not mention his name I met a Para .who claimed it was him, he was trying to get over the fence, the Germans shot him and he was taken POW, I told him nicely that it was a hell of story, but never told him he lied, as i had respect for him.

    To end this post, very nice what people tell you but it is very hard to prove, Arnhem is a big market for selling and when you believe ever salesman, who want to make big money 30.000 troops landed at Arnhem, and everything is a souvenir or was recenlty found at an attic in Arnhem, or in a shed in Oosterbeek.

    I have a couple of Arnhem souvenirs myself, which were given personally to me by the Veterans, and I can tell you that I have been in touch with many of them through out the years, but only a couple had something left.

    So I leave it up to you ofocourse, but unless give by Tony Thomas himself, I would never go for it.

    Philip-Thank you for your candor and I appreciate the fact that you were just leveling with me. One aspect of your last post that is of significance to me was your reference to 'Luftwaffe Girls'. I too believe that this girl/woman whose photograph is clearly shown in Major Thomas' book was certainly not a soldier. The uniform is much too large for her. She obviously either had it put on her after she was shot or she put it on for reasons unknown. Can you tell me more about 'Luftwaffe Girls'? Were they part of the 'Hitler Jugen'? BTW, the helmet is quite small in comparison to other helmets that I've seen and was sold to 'Casque & Gauntlet' by Major Thomas' son David. I'm trying to find him to obtain more information on the story. If it's an exaggeration, that's fine I just am very interested in knowing about that photograph and what (if any) connection it has to this helmet. Just FYI, I similarly purchased a US Army helmet in Plymouth, UK and successfully traced it back to its previous owner, now deceased. It's just my hobby and my passion to create a living history, not just bits & bobs. Thanks again!
     
  15. Philip Reinders

    Philip Reinders Very Senior Member

    The Luftwaffe girls (Grey Mouses) called by the dutch, were girls who worked at Deelen Airfield they worked on the big tables in the big air raid bunker, moving the planes around, or work a typist and administration.

    By the way the photograph, in the book is this the one of the 2 soldiers lying by the fence at the van Borsellenweg?
     
  16. Paul Pariso

    Paul Pariso Very Senior Member

    The Luftwaffe girls (Grey Mouses) called by the dutch, were girls who worked at Deelen Airfield they worked on the big tables in the big air raid bunker, moving the planes around, or work a typist and administration.

    By the way the photograph, in the book is this the one of the 2 soldiers lying by the fence at the van Borsellenweg?

    I've looked at my copy of the book in question and the photo is indeed the one you mention Philip.

    All the best............... :)
     

    Attached Files:

  17. Philip Reinders

    Philip Reinders Very Senior Member

    They were killed by men of the Border Regiment!, and in now way near 156 Parachute Bn Positions

    Have enclosed a google earth map, with roughly the positions

    [​IMG]
    Uploaded with ImageShack.us
     
  18. horsapassenger

    horsapassenger Senior Member

    "troughout the 35 years of research about the Battle, ................ 30.000 troops landed at Arnhem."

    Really!!!!! Where on earth did you get that figure? That is truly amazing - Middlebrook estimated 11920, where did the other 20,000 come from?

    John
     
  19. Philip Reinders

    Philip Reinders Very Senior Member

    From those who sell "Arnhem" relics, as every airborne item comes from Arnhem!!!!



    when you believe ever salesman, who want to make big money 30.000 troops landed at Arnhem,
     
  20. Philip Reinders

    Philip Reinders Very Senior Member

    And even Middlebrook got it wrong, as it were more then 12.000
     

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