Hi All I am new to this forum and wondering if anyone can help me with any details of the person listed. I have recently acquired a medal to him and have just started to research him so any help will be greatfully received. Thanks for looking and looking forward to creating and answering as many threads as I can in the future. ANDY
I know it's not much help but your man DOESN'T appear in the Nominal Roll for Operation Market Garden. All the best..............
Blimey 376 quid for it !!!! EFFICIENCY MEDAL, Bar Territorial, GVIR issue to Private J. A. Downie, Glider Pilot Regiment (Auction ID: 108461, End Time : 30 Jan. 2011 20:07:57) - Neate Auctions
I know I was the highest bidder!! but I have seen them go for a lot more than that in the past and the research potential is worth the outlay. ANDY
All Glider Pilots were a minimum rank of Sergeant. I note that this person was a Private. I can only therefore suspect that he was ground crew John
It IS quite possible for a rank other than a Sergeant to be "in" the GPR - I have an original battledress jacket to a Corporal. On being awarded the Army Flying Badge, a soldier was automatically given the rank of Sergeant, unless of course he was already an N.C.O or of even higher rank. So, I guess we're looking at a trainee glider pilot here.
Or a mess steward/admin clerk etc etc.... Many of these non-combatant positions were handled by the regiment's parent corps, the AAC. The GPR did indeed have administration staff but as far as I remember, all were Officers - who had previously qualified as pilots.
According to his number starting at 142***** - he joined in late summer 1942..... so in 1943 - late summer he might have been ready for overseas action at 19 and so pushing it for Ahrnem .... Cheers
According to his number starting at 142***** - he joined in late summer 1942..... so in 1943 - late summer he might have been ready for overseas action at 19 and so pushing it for Ahrnem .... Cheers Hello Tom, I knew a pilot who joined October 1943 and who made it to Arnhem the following year.
A number of things come to mind here, 1. I think the 1st thing to do is to find out which Regiment/Corps were allocated the block in which his number resides. 2. My understanding is you did not get deployed to the GPR after attestation but were able to apply for transfer from your existing regiment/corps (excluding RAC - maybe wrong here) if you passed selection. 3.The Efficiency Medal was for 12 years service with the Territorial Army, so a number of possibilities here: a) He joined up to a territorial unit initially (during war) & was accepted by GPR at some stage during the war or after it (if they had territorial units of the GPR-I see the Regiment was disbanded in 1957). b) Had Territorial expertise prior to war & then enlisted during war in '42, later to be selected to GPR.. I suppose it really boils down to the "chicken or the Egg'". Was his Territorial service before war or after it, I would think that if the GPR did not have a TA unit, then he transferred into it during the war & his medal bears then name of the last unit in which he served. i am leaning towards him being a transfer in to a territorial unit after the war, given his rank as private on the medal, but will tgryo to find his block number disposition. Interesting medal ATB Simon
Can I return to my original post. What I said was that if he was a Glider Pilot, i.e. flew a Glider, his minimum rank would be that of a Sergeant. I would refer you to Ronald Seth's book "Lion with Blue Wings" at page 58 where he states "On paper the eventual war establishment of the Glider Pilot Regiment was to be two Battalions of six operational companies of pilots each, the men to hold the rank of sergeant pilot". Thus a person training to be a Glider Pilot would remain on the strength of his parent unit, with his original rank, until such time as he qualified as a pilot. Only then would he be transferred and taken on strength of the GPR and become a Sergeant Pilot - if he failed the course he was RTU'd. John
I've just checked my Father's Efficiency medal, he was a pre war Territorial. It's inscribed with his final wartime rank and unit. John
Towrope The ONLY number quoted is that starting with 142***** which is a general service number meaning that he was called into that Corps to start his initial training in late summer'42 which lasted six weeks before posting for further training..how long was the glider pilots course .... a number of things are odd - where did the Artillery number come from as the GSC number stayed throughout one's service .....unless Commissioned..... when was the territorial medal awarded- and for which period ..... how old was your pilot who joined Ahrnem from joining in Oct '43 .... only the service record can answer most of these questions - the artillery numbers quoted are six and seven digits - the GSC numbers are eight digits ....which started in 1942 ! Cheers
Tom The Territorial Efficiency medal was awarded for 12 years service. My Father was 23 when the war ended which would have meant that he joined the TA when he was 11 - but war service counted double so his 6 years war service 1939 - 1945 accounted for most of it. Yes he was only 17 when he joined up - he lied about his age as is shown on his service records. I've got a pre war photo of his as a corporal in the TA (Royal Fusiliers) John
I too have just checked my Father's Territorial Army records. In 1931 he was a L.Cpl. at Bromsgrove School Contingent, Junior Division, Officers Training Corps. On 3rd July 1939 (late Cadet Serjeant, Bromsgrove School contingent) he was commissioned as 2nd Lieutenant, The Royal Warwickshire Regiment, Territorial Army. Relinquished temporary rank of Acting Captain with the RWR 7.6.44., and transferred to the AAC in the rank of War Substantive Lieutenant with retained seniority. Awarded Army Flying Badge 2nd Pilot wef 14.9.44. GPR 24.03.45. Operation Varsity - 1st Pilot - Flt. Cmdr.x Flight 3 x 15 gliders carrying HQ 6 Airlanding Brigade first up in serial lift from Earls Colne Airfield. Disembodied with effect from 4.1.46., and granted the honorary rank of Captain, remaining a member of TARO until December 1963: he died in August 1964. In March 1983 Dad was posthumously awarded the Territorial Efficiency Decoration. A medal our family treasure. Lindsay
