12th Lancers

Discussion in '1940' started by Simon_h, Oct 22, 2010.

  1. judipearton

    judipearton Junior Member

    This pattern of service dress was in widespread use between 1922 and 1939 which makes exact dating difficult.

    He has a good conduct chevron and what looks to be a marksman's proficience badge. I don't recognise the trade badge. Is it a wreath with a crown above ?

    Thanks for this. I know little about uniforms/badges etc. My dad was in the 12th Lancers and we understand that he shot for the Army (or regiment) at Bisley, so that could explain the marksman's badge. (By the way, which one is it?). He enlisted in 1927 and he was a Sergeant in 1940 when he was awarded the DCM, so I guess the photo was around 1935. Does that all tie in?
     
  2. Rich Payne

    Rich Payne Rivet Counter Patron 1940 Obsessive

    If your father was in a regimental team then it's worth checking the journals of the time as they included more sporting results than anything else. The marksman's badge is two crossed rifles.

    Reading his commendation, it seems that his training and skill-at-arms stood him in good stead.

    Promotions were slower coming in the peactime army but there is a good chance that if he was a sergeant in 1940, he might well have had at least a single stripe by 1935 and something about the photo suggests it was a little prior to 1935 to me.

    The chevron indcated three years exemplary service so that would put it after 1930. Do you have any other photographs with him bareheaded ? Sometimes the haircuts are the best clue.
     
  3. judipearton

    judipearton Junior Member

    I posted a picture (on page 3) titled Arthur Max Pearton. Dad is seated, second from the right as you look at it. They all look a bit startled! We have no idea when, where or who was in it, but there have been a couple of replies.
     
  4. judipearton

    judipearton Junior Member

    Rich, I tried sending a private message but I couldn't sem to add an attachment.
    After seeing your profile picture, I thought you may like this. This is my dad on his Ariel Square 4, probably taken after the war, and maybe at the REME workshops at Bovington, where he worked after he was discharged (I think in 1947). I don't remember the bike, but heard about it - so fairly certain it was before 1951/52!

    Also, using your knowledge of uniforms, have you any ideas about the other photo. Obviously 1930 with a X against one of the riders, and we wondered if it was Dad. The writing on the back is hard to decipher but seems to imply that it was something to do with '2/8 Hants going into action 1930'. Dad did not go abroad (Egypt) until 1931. Any ideas would be greatly appreciated?
     

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  5. Rich Payne

    Rich Payne Rivet Counter Patron 1940 Obsessive

    Judi, no 'PM' has appeared. Not to worry though.

    The motorcycle is not a 'Squarial' but a pre-war BSA War Office V-twin. Prior to the outbreak of war, service vehicles carried civilian registration numbers.

    The armoured car also indicates a pre-war date.

    The postcard is captioned on the front as well but I can't read it all. '25th Brigade, RFA' ? Can you read more ?
     
  6. judipearton

    judipearton Junior Member

    Rich, Shows how much I know! We knew he had a ariel 4 after the war and assumed this was it. We thought he looked quite young in the photo! As to the 'Cavalry' photo, the wording on the front is unreadable as the white road blanks it out. Someone might have an idea where and when.
     
  7. JCB

    JCB Senior Member

    Love them BSA V Twins , rare as hens teeth now ! Have a feeling most of them dissapeared in France. Surprised the lorry behind has a bald spare tyre.
     
  8. judipearton

    judipearton Junior Member

    Whilst on the subject of uniforms, can anyone give me any info on the attached hat photos? It was found with my Dad's old letters etc; we always assumed it was his but there are no photos of him wearing it? No badges, only two buttons at the front (or back)?
     

    Attached Files:

  9. May1940

    May1940 Senior Member

    Whilst on the subject of uniforms, can anyone give me any info on the attached hat photos? It was found with my Dad's old letters etc; we always assumed it was his but there are no photos of him wearing it? No badges, only two buttons at the front (or back)?

    I'll try and get in here before a hat expert. According to a book on British uniforms, this is a 12th Lancers cap and the buttons are at the front.

    http://www.ww2talk.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=83116&stc=1&d=1335277646

    Andrew
     

    Attached Files:

  10. May1940

    May1940 Senior Member

    Judi, no 'PM' has appeared. Not to worry though.

    The motorcycle is not a 'Squarial' but a pre-war BSA War Office V-twin. Prior to the outbreak of war, service vehicles carried civilian registration numbers.

    The armoured car also indicates a pre-war date.

    The postcard is captioned on the front as well but I can't read it all. '25th Brigade, RFA' ? Can you read more ?

    The armoured car looks like a Lanchester 6x4. These were used by the 12th Lancers between 1934 and 1939 when they were replaced by the Morris AC9.

    Andrew
     
  11. JCB

    JCB Senior Member

    Wonder if they'd have been better off with the Lanchesters !
     
  12. Indiepink

    Indiepink Junior Member

    I'd be glad of some help resolving a bit of a mystery please. All received wisdom seems to indicate that the 12th Lancers left the beaches on 31st May and Drew5233's Info from Philson's BEF Orbat 1940 confirms that but my father, Victor St John Bathe, was in the Lancers and told my brother his memory of standing in the water holding his rifle above his head whilst he waited for a boat. He very narrowly missed getting on a boat which took a bomb straight down its funnel (almost certainly the HMS Keith) so it seems that he was trying to embark from La Panne rather than Malo les Bains as per orders. Also, whilst the rest of his regiment made it back to England on 1st June, his army records say that he arrived in England from France on 16 June and he was listed as MIA for 12 days or so. It's been suggested to me that he might have made his way down the coast to embark from Le Havre but as this is 333k away it seems unlikely. It would be great if anyone can come up with any solutions as to how he might have made it back after such a gap etc. There's no record of him being wounded.
     
  13. Drew5233

    Drew5233 #FuturePilot 1940 Obsessive

    Hi,

    My first thought of anyone being evacuated from France that late would be an evacuation from the St. Nazaire/Nantes are of France. Le Havre (Op Cycle) was a bit earlier than the 16th June so he would have been part of Op Aerial. The ship he refers to maybe the LMS Lancastria. I know she was lost on the 17th June but the memories fade and he may have had an opportunity to board her on the 16th June and opted for another ship.
     
  14. LesCM19

    LesCM19 "...lets rock!"

    I gathered that they had 38 Morris CS9 armoured cars but was not aware of the Guy 'wheeled tanks' until I came across this thread.
    Presumably the 6 were in 2 troops, if so how does that fit in with the 38 Morris ACs?

    EDIT: Guy wheeled tanks used by No3 Air Mission (Phantom), not sure what I was getting at!!
     
  15. JCB

    JCB Senior Member

    Heres a few of the 12th Lancers Morris AC abandoned next to a barge on a big waterway , looks like the Dunkirk area or maybe Newport ?
    Craig
     

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  16. Owen

    Owen -- --- -.. MOD

  17. Ramiles

    Ramiles Researching 9th Lancers, 24th L and SRY

    In the 2016 -Vanguard-

    -The Journal of the Inns of Court and City Yeomanry Association -

    There's a section on the "War Diary of Sir Basil Hall – KCB MC TD, 12th Lancers – France/Belgium – May 1940" - Pages 14-19: http://www.iccy.org.uk/uploads/9/4/8/5/9485116/vanguard__hi-res_proofed__2016_version_3.pdf
     
  18. JCB

    JCB Senior Member

    Enjoyed reading that Ramiles , personal accounts so much more interesting than dry histories i.e.'at 11.59 hours the 3rd/5ths Loamshires received part 13XYZ orders to move 4ABC Company to Le Brigadoon with B echelon in reserve' kind of stuff.

    Warning Vehicle Anorak Stuff , in his account Basil Hall refers to his own vehicle constantly as ' The Bug' a nickname I assume and I would guess it's a 8cwt truck.

    Craig
     
    Last edited: Mar 11, 2018
  19. The Germans arrived on the evening of the 28th, much later. The troop which arrived 5 minutes after the explosion of the bridge is the 60th French Division. 2 French soldiers died when the Lancers blew up the Schoorbakke bridge, they were buried at the foot of the bridge. A French officer had come to ask the English not to bring down the bridge because his troop arrived on foot but the English believed that the man was from the 5th colone and that the Germans arrived ... It was the 60th DI that has due to abandon his artillery on the other side of the Yser. The night until the 29 at about noon, the Division covered only 24 KM between Nieuport and dixmude
    the 270th RI and dixmude and 10 KM then held by the 241st RI.
    The English were holding a bridge over the sea on 1 or 2 KM and had a detachment to Dixmude but it quickly retreated. About 50 60 deaths were done at the 60th DIVISION on the yser.
    (Belgian et 60eme DI archives )
     


  20. [​IMG]

    Beelden

    The bridge would not be that of schoorbakke but tervate next door according to the Belgian archives.
     

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