12th Battalion Devonshire Regiment

Discussion in 'Airborne' started by lineman, Feb 13, 2011.

  1. brithm

    brithm Senior Member

    1949 Reunion in Exeter "Red Devils" of the Devons
    upload_2021-10-27_18-58-34.png
    (Western Times 28 October 1949)
    upload_2021-10-27_18-57-31.png
     
  2. reddevon

    reddevon Member

    The chap in the photo is defiantly wearing American para uniform but as already stated he is carrying a MkIV Sten with bayonet attached but still in its scabbard, he is also wearing a British dispatch riders helmet not an airborne helmet.

    Fallinghunter , you quoted me as saying. It was Reddevon who mentioned the Bn Nominal Roll - On the Rhine crossing Captain Carroll of the 12th Devons states he was in glider 155 along with Brigadier.R.H.Bellamy along with 6th Airlanding Brigade HQ piloted by Lt Col Iain Murry co of the glider wing, is there any info to verify the passengers in gliders as Captain Carroll does not appear on the Rhine crossing Nominal roll - the photo of glider 155 landing was sent to me by the son of Captain Carroll and it has this written on the back
    upload_2021-11-1_20-16-35.png

    upload_2021-11-1_20-18-50.png
     
  3. reddevon

    reddevon Member

    Normandy 1944 support company had, a signals platoon, Mortar platoon consisting of 4 x 3" mortars, Recce platoon and an Admin platoon. There was a separate AA/ATk company which consisted of two anti tank platoons with 6 x 6pdr guns and two AA platoons consisting of Hispano guns . After the reorganisation in late 44 the AA/AT company was discontinued and the guns incorporated into Support Company as follows. Mortar Plt = 3 sects each of 2 x 3" Mortars, MMG Plt = 3 sects each of 2 x Vickers MMG + 1 sect flame throwers. A/Tk Plt = 6 x detachments of 1 x 6 Pdr A/Tk guns (later 1 x 17 Pdr was incorporated), Assult Plt consisted of 3 assult sections. Transported included 40 carriers, 46 trucks of various sizes.
     
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  4. Fallinghunter

    Fallinghunter Member

    Thanks Reddevon, that's a great picture and can see how we get to see CN 155 from a number of angles.

    With regards to the nominal roll - probably an assumption on my behalf that you had it when you mentioned that Capt Carroll wasn't on it - which suggested you had a terms of reference to go to. It's a real shame that only the officers appear in the Divisional orbat shared by Cee - we'll keep plodding on! Thanks for the comments - I'm enjoying working on the Rivenhall strand.
     
  5. Fallinghunter

    Fallinghunter Member

    Hi Mike, did you get any joy with info on the chaps in the photo? Is that 133 on the glider, hard to see in the glare...
     
  6. Daniel moore

    Daniel moore New Member

    Hi, just looking for some info on my great uncle who was from Devon.
    Gunner Gordon Thomas Moore, service number 14630710 died in op varsity on the 24th March 1945, he was in 3 airlanding anti tank bty. I believe his glider didn't make it to Germany but looking for some more info.

    Kind regards Dan
     
  7. alberk

    alberk Well-Known Member

    Hi Dan,
    what do you know about his glider? You seem to have some idea...
    This would help to further look into the matter.
    We know that he is listed as "No Known Grave".

    Quite a few gliders were lost:
    HORSAS. (Total loaded 38).

    The following did not arrive according to plan:-

    (i) 3 Bty HQ 1 - crashed on landing - load salvaged five hours later.

    (ii) 3 Bty HQ 2 - landed NORTH EAST of autobahn, load and personnel OK - joined up with bty.

    (iii) 3 Bty HQ 3 - landed on LZ, hit by 88mm whilst unloading and burned out. Load lost - one survivor (badly wounded).

    (iv) A Tp HQ 1 - landed off LZ - jeep and trailer hit by mortar when crossing LZ. Four "X" casualties.

    (v) A Tp HQ 2 - landed near autobahn - lashings gave way but load salvaged.

    (vi) B Tp HQ 1 - landed far SOUTH of LZ in American area - load shot up by MG fire in glider and had to be abandoned.

    (vii) B Tp HQ 2 - no trace.

    (viii) C Tp HQ 1 - hit in air by flak. Crashed and burned out - load lost.

    (ix) D Tp HQ 2 - let to 3 Para Bde. Flew composite load (including Major Cully, 210 Airldg Lt Bty RA) - hit by flak crashed and burned out - load lost.

    (x) D Tp Gun det 3 - landed on top of trees - crashed - load lost.

    (xi) D Tp Gun det 4 - no trace.

    HAMILCARS. (Total loaded 16).

    The following failed to arrive according to plan:-

    (i) B Tp Gun det - failed to take off.

    (ii) A Tp Gun det - landed WEST of RHINE at BOURG LEOPOLD - no casualties.

    (iii) C Tp Gun det - landed far to SOUTH in American area - no casualties.

    (iv) A Tp Gun det - crashed on wrong LZ - wrecked - load lost.

    (v) C Tp Gun det - crashed EAST of river ISSEL in American area - one survivor - load lost.

    (vi) B Tp Gun det - no trace.
     
  8. Daniel moore

    Daniel moore New Member

    Hi alberk,
    Thankyou so much for your reply, I don't really know alot. His brother, my grandad who has sadly passed away now never really had much info.

    Below is all the information I have found out from the forces war records.
    I have been searching the pegasus archive for information but couldn't find anything.

    I found a list of names that were with Major Cully and he wasn't there

    I was wondering if I applied for his service record would it give me any more info than I already know.

    Kind regards
    Dan
     

    Attached Files:

  9. alberk

    alberk Well-Known Member

    Hi Dan,

    thank you - I will write a little more tomorrow. I did some research: From what I can tell his glider did make it to Germany and landed on the battlefield. That can be pretty much confirmed - but then things get murky...

    Best
    Alex
     
  10. alberk

    alberk Well-Known Member

    Hi Dan,
    I consulted some original documents which contain the information below:

    3 A/L ATk Bty were taken to battlefield in 13 Hamilcars and 19 Horsa gliders.
    These were numbered with chalk numbers:
    CN 239 - 244 (= 5 Hamilcars)
    CN 247 - 254 (= 5 Hamilcars)
    CN 168 - 172 (= 5 Horsas)
    CN 379 - 384 (= 5 Horsas)
    CN 385 - 393 (= 9 Horsas)

    Three of these did not make it to the Rhine (CN 250, CN 253, CN 254). They "aborted" i.e. released during the flight. However, there were no fatalities connected to these incidents.

    So, if Gunner Moore was KIA this must have happened during the landing on the battlefield or by the subsequent fighting.
    Detachments of 3 A/L ATk Bty were designated to land on various LZs to provide anti-tank capabilities there. Thus, their dead were buried in many places across the Varsity battlefield.

    I have a list of initial burial places of all fatal casualties of 6 AB Div based on CWGC documents. For your great uncle's unit we can say this much: Of the 21 men lost by 3 A/L ATk Bty twelve were buried on the battlefield, nine soldiers of 3 A/L ATk Bty are listed as having "No Known Grave":

    Bailey D, Gunner, KIA 24/03/1945 NKG/Groesbeek Memorial
    Carr B M, Bombardier, KIA 24/03/1945 NKG/Groesbeek Memorial
    Day A K, Gunner, KIA 24/03/1945 NKG/Groesbeek Memorial
    Goddard F W, Bombardier, KIA 24/03/1945 NKG/Groesbeek Memorial
    Griffiths I, Gunner, KIA 24/03/1945 NKG/Groesbeek Memorial
    Hill J, Gunner, KIA 24/03/1945 NKG/Groesbeek Memorial
    Low J M, Gunner, KIA 24/03/1945 NKG/Groesbeek Memorial
    Moore G T, Gunner, KIA 24/03/1945 NKG/Groesbeek Memorial
    Wenlock W H, Gunner, KIA 24/03/1945 NKG/Groesbeek Memorial

    All in all 6 AB Div has 62 Varsity casualties who are listed as having "No Known Grave".
    On CWGC concentration forms (they list graves on the battlefield) I found 31 entries for bodies or remains which were buried but remained unidentifiable. Below you will find the information given on the concentration forms. The six digit number is a grid reference, it is followed by the actual location (which I added in German). I cannot tell whether the other 31 men who are not listed below "disappeared" altogether or whether I just did nor find the concentration forms which have relevant information on these.

    Soldier AAC - 189480 Köpenhof/Bislicher Straße

    Soldier AAC - 189480 Köpenhof/Bislicher Straße

    Soldier - 216493 Bhf. Hamminkeln

    Soldier - 216493 Bhf. Hamminkeln

    Soldier RA - 216493 Bhf. Hamminkeln

    Soldier RA - 216493 Bhf. Hamminkeln

    Soldier Airborne - 171509 knapp w Nienkampshof

    Soldier Airborne - 171509 knapp w Nienkampshof

    Soldier 6 AB Div - 171513 n Nienkampshof

    Soldier 6 AB Div - 171513 n Nienkampshof

    Soldier 6 Ab Div - 171513 n Nienkampshof

    Soldier - 188492 Hegemannshof

    Soldier 13 Para Pte - 188492 Hegemannshof

    Soldier - 177x99 (?) vermutlich 177(4)99 ö Grenzweg

    Soldier 7 Para Pte - 177x99 (?) vermutlich 177(4)99 ö Grenzweg

    Soldier 12 Para - 191512 Hülshorst/Autobahn

    Soldier - 216493 Bhf. Hamminkeln

    Soldier 3 Para/R Sigs - 158471 Bergerfurth Friedhof (L/Cpl F J Adams 6351063?)

    Soldier 3 Para - 158471 Bergerfurth Friedhof

    Soldier Airborne Div - 207488 Schule Hamminkeln

    Soldier RA - 172485 ö Harderwycker Weg (= „Bamford“ = unknown = Jarvie?)

    Soldier - 216493 Bhf. Hamminkeln

    Soldier RA - 216492 Bhf. Hamminkeln

    Soldier RA - 216492 Bhf. Hamminkeln

    Soldier RA - 216492 Bhf. Hamminkeln

    Soldier Sgt 6 A/B Div - 159523 Wittenhorst

    Soldier Sgt 6 A/B Div - 159523 Wittenhorst

    Soldier Glider Pil. - 149513 Wittenhorst

    Soldier RA - 189480 Köpenhof/Bislicher Straße

    Soldier - 189480 Köpenhof/Bislicher Straße (Sgn. R. H. Woodward 14547624?)

    Soldier - 184508 Kesseldorfer Rott / halbe Strecke Nienkampshof - Autobahn

    I hope this gives you some context regarding the fate of your great uncle, Gordon Thomas Moore.

    Best
    Alex
     
    Last edited: Jan 16, 2022
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  11. Daniel moore

    Daniel moore New Member

    Hi Alex

    Thankyou so much for taking the time to do this, as you say this gives some context to what happened to him that day.
    Looking into this and learning morning about the events of ww2 has given me a far greater appreciation of the sacrifice they made.

    Even though he sadly lost his life it is nice to know that he made it to the battlefield and has some part to play.
    So thankyou again for providing so quickly a storyline to something that has been a mystery.

    Kind regards
    Dan
     
  12. alberk

    alberk Well-Known Member

    Hi Dan - for me, too, it was quite interesting to see what can be found out in a difficult case such as this. And it is important to remember each life lost.
     
    Last edited: Jan 16, 2022
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  13. alberk

    alberk Well-Known Member

    With the above information one can look at the list of "lost gliders" of the 3rd A/L At Bty which I initially posted - it comes from the war diary of the 2nd Air Landing Anti-Regiment. The two I marked in red (plus - maybe - the "no trace" ones) are likely crashes that could have resulted in losses which may have led to victims not being identifiable. However, we're in the realm of speculation here. But it brings home the harsh realities of Operation Varsity.

    Lost gliders of 3rd A/L At Bty:
    (i) 3 Bty HQ 1 - crashed on landing - load salvaged five hours later.

    (ii) 3 Bty HQ 2 - landed NORTH EAST of autobahn, load and personnel OK - joined up with bty.

    (iii) 3 Bty HQ 3 - landed on LZ, hit by 88mm whilst unloading and burned out. Load lost - one survivor (badly wounded).

    (iv) A Tp HQ 1 - landed off LZ - jeep and trailer hit by mortar when crossing LZ. Four "X" casualties.

    (v) A Tp HQ 2 - landed near autobahn - lashings gave way but load salvaged.

    (vi) B Tp HQ 1 - landed far SOUTH of LZ in American area - load shot up by MG fire in glider and had to be abandoned.

    (vii) B Tp HQ 2 - no trace.

    (viii) C Tp HQ 1 - hit in air by flak. Crashed and burned out - load lost.

    (ix) D Tp HQ 2 - let to 3 Para Bde. Flew composite load (including Major Cully, 210 Airldg Lt Bty RA) - hit by flak crashed and burned out - load lost.

    (x) D Tp Gun det 3 - landed on top of trees - crashed - load lost.

    (xi) D Tp Gun det 4 - no trace.

    HAMILCARS. (Total loaded 16).

    The following failed to arrive according to plan:-

    (i) B Tp Gun det - failed to take off.

    (ii) A Tp Gun det - landed WEST of RHINE at BOURG LEOPOLD - no casualties.

    (iii) C Tp Gun det - landed far to SOUTH in American area - no casualties.

    (iv) A Tp Gun det - crashed on wrong LZ - wrecked - load lost.

    (v) C Tp Gun det - crashed EAST of river ISSEL in American area - one survivor - load lost.

    (vi) B Tp Gun det - no trace.
     
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  14. alberk

    alberk Well-Known Member

    I just realized that the victims of this glider crash were eventually all identified - it had landed far off LZ A in German held territory.
    Culley.jpg
     
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  15. Daniel moore

    Daniel moore New Member

  16. alberk

    alberk Well-Known Member

    Thanks for the picture of Gunner Gordon Thomas Moore, Dan!
     
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  17. Swedebasher's Grandson

    Swedebasher's Grandson Junior Member

    Hi, seeing this man years on. I seem to remember a photo of my Grandad socialising with what I assumed assumed be work colleagues... maybe these were old army friends. Would love love see the photo if it's no bother.
     
  18. Swedebasher's Grandson

    Swedebasher's Grandson Junior Member

    Dear all, hoping that 2022 finds you all well?
    I have a little more information on my Grandfather... I have found out that he was in 21 Platoon of D Company... does anyone have any more details of any members of 21 Platoon? Officer Commanding, any rank and file who are known to have been in that Platoon?
    Also I have made a Facebook page for those who use that social media platform. It is titled 12th Battalion (Airborne) Devonshire Regiment. I have set this up for family members of 12 Devons men to share stories and try and piece together a little more of their forbears history. Please do apply to join if you are a direct family member or relative and I will PM you.
     
  19. David Woods

    David Woods Active Member

    Found a very poor and incorrect profile of Capt. (T/Maj.) Patrick Robson Dobbin (66442) of the 12th (Airborne) Battalion, Devonshire Regiment on Paradata. So I've just updated the profile with the following information.

    Maj. Patrick Robson Dobbin.jpg
    Patrick Robson Dobbin

    Commissioned 30th Nov. 1935 into Royal Artillery (T.A.)

    409th (Suffolk) A.A. Batt.—Patrick Robson Dobbin
    (late Cadet Lce.-Corpl., Rugby Sen. Contgt., Jun. Div., O.T.C.)
    to be 2nd Lt. 30th Nov. 1935.

    4th Bn. Devon R.—2nd Lt. P. R. Dobbin,
    from 59th (Home Counties) Fd. Bde., R.A.,
    to be 2nd Lt. with seniority as in the T.A.
    2nd Apr. 1938.

    4th Bn. Devon R.—2nd Lt. P. R. Dobbin to be Lt. 30th Nov. 1938.

    12th Battalion, Devonshire Regiment
    Lt. Patrick Robson Dobbin. Taken On Strength 1st Apr. 1941.

    T/Capt. 20th July, 1941.

    C Coy
    O.C. T/Capt. P. R. Dobbin 18th Sept. 1942.

    HQ Coy
    O.C. T/Capt. P. R. Dobbin 31st Jan. 1943.

    12th Battalion, Devonshire Regiment.
    Attached 6th Airlanding Brigade, 29th July, 1943.

    12th Battalion, Devonshire Regiment.
    Converted to and reorganized as Airlanding Battalion, 4th Oct. 1943.

    E. Coy (Heavy Coy)
    O.C. T/Maj. P. R. Dobbin 18th Oct. 1943

    Support Coy
    O.C. T/Maj. P. R. Dobbin Sept. 1944

    T/Maj. P. R. Dobbin, served with the 12th (Airborne) Battalion, Devonshire Regiment
    in Normandy, Ardennes/Holland, on Operation Varsity and on the Advance to the Baltic.

    T/Maj. P. R. Dobbin (66442) killed in an ambush by retreating
    German soldiers, 2nd April, 1945.

    London Gazette

    The KING has been graciously pleased to confer
    "The Territorial Efficiency Decoration" upon the
    following officers.

    Devon R.
    Capt. (T/Maj.) P. R. DOBBIN (66442) (killed in
    action).
     

    Attached Files:

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  20. Cee

    Cee Senior Member Patron

    Last edited: May 14, 2022
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