1 East Surreys Sicily

Discussion in 'Italy' started by LarryNunn, Jan 18, 2011.

  1. LarryNunn

    LarryNunn Junior Member

    Hi all,

    I've joined this forum in the hope of getting a bit more detail about my father's exploits during Operation Husky, the invasion of Sicily.

    He was Private Bill Nunn, a Bren gunner of Norfolk Company, 1st Battalion East Surrey Regiment, which was part of 11th Infantry Brigade, 78th Infantry (Battleaxe) Division, which formed Monty's reserve during the initial invasion of Sicily, but which was drafted into battle as part of XXX Corps for the push through Catenanuova, Centuripe, Adrano and Bronte. The 78th went on past Bronte, but my father was critically injured on the 7th August 1943 en route from Adrano to Bronte.

    I would like to hear from anyone else who has information about what the East Surreys were up to during the period leading up to and including that particular day, 7th August.

    My father is sadly dead now, but during one of our conversations about his wartime service he told me that the last recollections that he had of the moments before he was injured, was that his unit were involved in an assault upon a high walled cemetery. The East Surreys were apparently on higher ground overlooking the cemetery and during the assault my father was hit in the head by shrapnel that caused severe injury to his brain and put him out of the war. The next thing he could recall was coming round in a military hospital in Alexandria several days later, paralysed down his left side. Thankfully he regained the use of most of his body apart from having a somewhat 'gammy' left hand and epilepsy that dogged him for the rest of his life. Military doctors told my father that he should not expect to live more than 10 years when he was discharged from the Army, but he didn't die until 61 years later at the age of 80, having led a full life.

    There is just one high walled cemetery between Adrano and Bronte and it is surrounded by higher ground on three sides. I assume this must be the place that he was injured, but as I say, I would appreciate any further information anyone else might have.

    Similarly, if anyone wants me to share with them the information I have obtained regarding the East Surreys and 11th Infantry Brigade, I will be pleased to oblige.
     
    Crosbygirl likes this.
  2. Owen

    Owen -- --- -.. MOD

    Thought I'd move this to it's own thread.
    Just had a look in 78Div history , nothing in there & Ken Ford's book & all he mentions is 'Green Hill' .
    Sorry.
     
  3. Ron Goldstein

    Ron Goldstein WW2 Veteran WW2 Veteran

    Welcome aboard from one of the resident 78 Div chaps !

    Will follow this thread with interest.

    Ron
     
  4. Owen

    Owen -- --- -.. MOD

  5. PsyWar.Org

    PsyWar.Org Archive monkey

    Larry, as Owen suggests the war diaries with give you an idea of 1st East Surreys were and what they were up to. It's very unlikely that they mention your father by name but there will probably be some mention of O[ther] R[anks] casualties.


    <standard plug> If you're interested I undertake paid document copying and research at the National Archives </standard plug>

    Lee
     
  6. LarryNunn

    LarryNunn Junior Member

    Larry, as Owen suggests the war diaries with give you an idea of 1st East Surreys were and what they were up to. It's very unlikely that they mention your father by name but there will probably be some mention of O[ther] R[anks] casualties.


    <standard plug> If you're interested I undertake paid document copying and research at the National Archives </standard plug>

    Lee

    Hi Lee, How much do you charge?
     
  7. LarryNunn

    LarryNunn Junior Member

    Welcome aboard from one of the resident 78 Div chaps !

    Will follow this thread with interest.

    Ron

    Hi Ron,

    I see you served with the 49th LAA, which in my ignorance I assume served a defensive role in support of ground troops, providing protection against air attack. How close were you to the battles that my father would have been involved in, i.e. Catenanuova, Centuripe, Adrano and Bronte?
     
  8. PsyWar.Org

    PsyWar.Org Archive monkey

    Hi Lee, How much do you charge?

    10 pence per page for a digital photograph, with a minimum charge of £2.00 per file.
     
  9. LarryNunn

    LarryNunn Junior Member

    10 pence per page for a digital photograph, with a minimum charge of £2.00 per file.

    So are you saying that if there are 100 pages of reports that would be of interest to me, you will charge me £10.00 for going to the Public Records Office, finding those reports, copying them and sending them to me?

    In fairness to you that does not seem like much reward for all that effort.

    In your experience and in view of the fact that my father spent about 2 months in Tunisia between May 1943 and July 25th when his unit landed near Syracuse; took about five days to reach the front adjacent to Catenanuova; and then was involved in fighting for approximately one week before being injured and stretchered out; how much paperwork in terms of that which would be pertinent would you expect to find at the public records office, approximately?

    Furthermore, how much time would you need to expend obtaining copies of it for me?
     
  10. PsyWar.Org

    PsyWar.Org Archive monkey

    So are you saying that if there are 100 pages of reports that would be of interest to me, you will charge me £10.00 for going to the Public Records Office, finding those reports, copying them and sending them to me?

    In fairness to you that does not seem like much reward for all that effort.

    That's it. Good deal isn't it!? :) Although I won't be going to Kew especially for you, I'll be doing my own research and work for others while I'm there.
    However, there is one major proviso, I copy complete documents, or easily separated sections. For example I'll copy everything say from January to May in sequence. I'm not going to read through everything first and only pick out and copy relevant sections.


    In your experience and in view of the fact that my father spent about 2 months in Tunisia between May 1943 and July 25th when his unit landed near Syracuse; took about five days to reach the front adjacent to Catenanuova; and then was involved in fighting for approximately one week before being injured and stretchered out; how much paperwork in terms of that which would be pertinent would you expect to find at the public records office, approximately?

    Furthermore, how much time would you need to expend obtaining copies of it for me?

    In that case I can copy everything in the diary from May to July 1943. Can't say how many pages that would be but probably in the range of 40 to 50 pages. Whether there will be anything of use to you there I can't say. The diary summaries usually record daily events and locations but often don't go into a great deal of detail. There may be maps showing movements, roll call of officers, mention of Other Rank casualties, etc. Exactly how detailed they are varies considerably between different units and even by different months in the same unit.

    Lee
     
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  11. LarryNunn

    LarryNunn Junior Member

    That's it. Good deal isn't it!? :) Although I won't be going to Kew especially for you, I'll be doing my own research and work for others while I'm there.
    However, there is one major proviso, I copy complete documents, or easily separated sections. For example I'll copy everything say from January to May in sequence. I'm not going to read through everything first and only pick out and copy relevant sections.




    In that case I can copy everything in the diary from May to July 1943. Can't say how many pages that would be but probably in the range of 40 to 50 pages. Whether there will be anything of use to you there I can't say. The diary summaries usually record daily events and locations but often don't go into a great deal of detail. There may be maps showing movements, roll call of officers, mention of Other Rank casualties, etc. Exactly how detailed they are varies considerably between different units and even by different months in the same unit.

    Lee

    Thank you for that explanation Lee.

    The period I am most interested in is from 24th July 1943 through to 8th August 1943 inclusive. If you would be so kind as to copy the relevent pages I will gladly pay you in accordance with the fees stated.

    Regards
     
  12. PsyWar.Org

    PsyWar.Org Archive monkey

    Thank you for that explanation Lee.

    The period I am most interested in is from 24th July 1943 through to 8th August 1943 inclusive. If you would be so kind as to copy the relevent pages I will gladly pay you in accordance with the fees stated.

    Regards

    Happy to do that for you Larry as long as I can copy all of July and August 1943. There may well be some interesting appendices/annexes amongst those months.

    I'll contact you when the copying is complete.

    Best wishes,

    Lee
     
  13. sicily43

    sicily43 Senior Member

    I think is the cemetery of Adrano, this city was conquered 7 August
    from this cemetery you look the Simeto river and the route from Centuripe/Regalbuto
     
  14. LarryNunn

    LarryNunn Junior Member

    Happy to do that for you Larry as long as I can copy all of July and August 1943. There may well be some interesting appendices/annexes amongst those months.

    I'll contact you when the copying is complete.

    Best wishes,

    Lee

    Fine. Thank you very much.
     
  15. LarryNunn

    LarryNunn Junior Member

    I think is the cemetery of Adrano, this city was conquered 7 August
    from this cemetery you look the Simeto river and the route from Centuripe/Regalbuto

    Hi Sicily43, I have not considered the cemetery at Adrano previousy, largely because all of the military histories that I have read so far state that Adrano fell to British forces without opposition. By all accounts the town had been shelled under a concerted artilliary barrage and bombed by the RAF to a "smouldering heap of rubble" and the German forces had withdrawn before the Surreys, leading the advance of 78th Division arrived.

    It is possible however that you may be right as there are just two river crossings between Centuripe/Regalbuto and Adrano; the bridge at Ponte Maccarone, which would have been the main route; and a smaller road, which is the more direct route between Centuripe and Adrano, that crosses the Simeto further south.

    Interestingly, the winding road from this smaller bridge approaches Adrano from the south, passing over high ground before entering the town along the Via Quattro Novembre, which passes very close to the town cemetery. Possibly the assertions that the British advance into Adrano was "unopposed" are an exaggeration and there may have been isolated pockets of German resistance. Certainly, having viewed this location on Google Maps and Google Street View, the cemetery at Adrano occupies high ground and looks like a natural stronghold and the sort of place that I would choose if I were a military commander wishing to block an enemy from advancing into the town from the south.

    Thank you for your help. :)
     
  16. LarryNunn

    LarryNunn Junior Member

    Hi Sicily43, from the phraseology that you use, I suspect that you may be Sicilian or Italian and if so, do you have any knowledge from local Sicilian records relating to the battle for Adrano?
     
  17. sicily43

    sicily43 Senior Member

    yes I'm sicilian, I will search from battle for Adrano, because in some book I find the city fall 7 august after a strong battle(from3 to 7 august).
    78 entry in Bronte 8 august, so I thinck without faught. I find in Bronte german were in north part of city in the hills and the HQ was in Nelson castel(about 10 km at north), the cimitery in Bronte is at south towards Adrano.
    yes Adrano's cemetery is in very strategical position.
    I will write you when a find most news
     
  18. Recce_Mitch

    Recce_Mitch Very Senior Member

    Welcome to the forum


    Cheers
    Paul
     
  19. Ron Goldstein

    Ron Goldstein WW2 Veteran WW2 Veteran

    Larry

    Just spotted an earlier query of yours:
    Hi Ron,
    I see you served with the 49th LAA, which in my ignorance I assume served a defensive role in support of ground troops, providing protection against air attack. How close were you to the battles that my father would have been involved in, i.e. Catenanuova, Centuripe, Adrano and Bronte?


    The short answer to all above is YES, as the only Light Ack Ack Rgt in 78 Div we were very much part and parcel of every phase in Sicily and all thise names mean a lot to me,

    As far as Adrano was concerned, it certainly inspired me to write the only poem I have ever written:


    I've heard it said that everyone has at least one poem inside them.

    I wrote mine after passing through Adrano in Sicily, shortly after 78 Div infantry had taken the town.

    "Darkness was falling as we entered the town, but t'was light enough still to see
    The shattered ruins of what had been, a town, in Sicily.

    It wasn't much to call a town, compared with those of greater size.
    It wasn't built for modern war and now a stinking heap it lies,
    Rotting beneath the azure skies, of Sicily.

    It seemed as if an angry God had run amok with gory hands,
    Then dropped a veil, a canopy, of dirty, blinding, choking sands
    And as to wreak his vengeance more
    Had propped a body in each door

    We drove on by with sober thought,
    Of those poor bastards who'd been caught,
    We grimaced at the sick, sweet, smell, of this small piece of man made hell

    This could be you, the bodies said, this could be you, soon gone, soon dead
    We hurried by, enough to be, alive that day, in Sicily"

    Ron
     
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  20. LarryNunn

    LarryNunn Junior Member

    yes I'm sicilian, I will search from battle for Adrano, because in some book I find the city fall 7 august after a strong battle(from3 to 7 august).
    78 entry in Bronte 8 august, so I thinck without faught. I find in Bronte german were in north part of city in the hills and the HQ was in Nelson castel(about 10 km at north), the cimitery in Bronte is at south towards Adrano.
    yes Adrano's cemetery is in very strategical position.
    I will write you when a find most news

    Thank you, Sicily43, that is very kind of you.

    The military histories that I have read so far indicate that there was stiff rearguard fighting by the Germans during the period 3rd to 6th August along the roads between Centuripe and Adrano. They indicate however that the town of Adrano was pounded to rubble unfortunately killing many civilian inhabitants. The histories indicate that 78th Division advanced upon Adrano during the night between 6th/7th August in the wake of a final artilliary barrage, and that the town fell without opposition early on the morning of 7th.

    The Surreys then proceeded with other units of the 78th along the road towards Bronte, were again they encountered sporadic resistance from German rearguard units. The 78th stopped just short of Bronte at dusk on 7th when it appears they came under stiffer resistance and a concerted barrage from German nebelwerfer, the multiple barrelled rocket launchers that notoriously produced large quantities of shrapnel.

    Just short of Bronte is the cemetery of Bronte, which as I have previously indicated, is surrounded by higher ground and therefore fits the location described by my father, but which is not the kind of natural defensive position that one would expect the German units to choose if they were looking for a potential stronghold. This cemetery could have been reached by the Surreys around dusk on the 7th and it was the scene of an intense nebelwerfer barrage that generated lots of shrapnel. This therefore could have been the site at which my father was injured, but the evidence is not conclusive.

    Furthermore, Sicily43, you have raised the issue of the cemetery at Adrano, which would have been encountered by the Surreys early in the morning of the 7th. My father recalled that he was injured early in the day and later discovered that he had been left for dead and was rescued much later in the day by burial parties who realised he was still alive. By a stroke of fate the soldier who apparently discovered my father still alive, ended up in the same ward in the hospital at Alexandria, having himself been injured in the days that followed.

    While the cemetary in Adrano is not surrounded by high ground, there appears to be high ground adjoining it, it would have been directly in the path of the Surreys if they had crossed the Simeto river at the smaller bridge and it is an obvious natural stronghold that one would expect the Germans to fiercely defend. While the military histories I have so far read suggest that Adrano fell without resistance, this could be an exaggeration/generalisation and there could have been pockets of German resistance, designed to simply slow the advancing British forces. Adrano is therefore also a strong possibility as the site of my father's misfortune.

    I look forward to hearing of any further information you are able to obtain.
     

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