Hello all My father Bombadier Harvey Skelton served in South Africa's UDF in the 7th Field Artillery (Service No 53192). He was captured on 23rd January 1942 at Saunnu in Libya. He was a POW in PG52 and StalagVIIIB. On capture he was wounded and spent time in hospital in Piacenza. I am looking for information on his war experience and would like to know more about the transit camp/s in Libya and dates of his admission to hospitals and POW camps, as well as anyone who may have met him in that period. I know he was transferred from PG52 to StalagVIIB and assume that was in September 1943 after the Italian armistice. He was repatriated in mid-January 1945 in the last such POW swop. I would also like to know more about the 7th Field Artillery and their war history. Many thanks
Hello Skelly, You've come to the right place for some assistance. First of all, you should send for his POW record from the International Red Cross in Geneva. You will get the dates of his admission to Piacenza hospital, PG 52 and his period in Germany. This service is free. The next opening date is 26th September at 8.00 am Geneva time. You have to get your request in to them within a few minutes of their opening otherwise you will have to wait another three or four months. All you need is the information you have posted above., Then, have you seen my website powcamppg52.weebly.com? On 26/7th September I will be visiting the site pf PG 52 with the relative of another POW and I may be able to access your father's POW card, which is held in the Communications Museum in Chiavari. If I don't have time to visit the museum I will ask a friend to obtain a copy. All the best, Vitellino (Janet )
Hi Janet Many thanks for your swift response! I have read a number of your previous posts w.r.t PG52 and have noted your expertise on this subject. I do intend to contact the IRC and was sorry to miss out on the (last) May opportunity, so I will be more alert in September! I will be thrilled to get a copy of my father's POW card as well, if possible. I shall also visit your website. Thanks again
Hi I suspect he was in 7 Field Battery, 2 S.A. Field Regiment? Your father was part of a 3-gun detachment forming part of MENZIESCOL under Major Menzies, 2 S.A. Field Regiment. On 23 January they were travelling to rejoin the main body of E Force under Brigadier Reid when they encountered an enemy column. In order to enable the main body to continue to move, Reid ordered Major Menzies and his force to engage the Axis column, which they did, and then to rejoin the main body, now travelling as rear guard. The next morning the guns again got into action, this time engaging a substantial enemy column with a suspected 40-50 tanks. Two guns were lost, and I suspect your father was amongst the crews of these guns. The gunners claimed 1 or 2 tanks hit. This was a massively confusing day, and I guess your father's unit was overrun by elements of 15th Panzer. All the best Andreas
Hi & Welcome Skelly, Your Dad's journey would have been similar to my Fathers. See map below for possible routes; The journeys of South Africans was similar to New Zealanders and the best place to get a sense of what happened can be found in the Official History of 2NZEF in the Chapter from PRISONERS OF WAR - that can be found here; I: The Desert Campaign of 1941—Prisoners in Italian Hands | NZETC
Andreas, many thanks for these insights. My point of reference until now has only been the verbal history (very seldom) told me by my father as a child. But the date of capture of 23 January remains embedded because it was a 'dark anniversary' every year in our household. It was also recorded as 23 January in my mother's notes made in her old age c.2010. However, you have given me wonderful leads to research viz. the units he was in; the officers involved; the circumstances surrounding the action; the link to the Crusader Project is also very helpful - again my sincere thanks!
Geoff, I had read the NZ history (in part) and it is indeed one of the best sites I've seen so far in my quest to fill the huge gaps in the my Dad's WW2 story. According to my mother's notes, his route to Italy must have been the western one, to Naples. It is interesting (for me) to surmise that his 'successful' arrival in Italy in Feb/March 1942 co-incided with a short-lived Axis dominance in the Mediterranean at the time, which ironically also allowed Rommel to re-equip his forces for the counter-offensive, the early movements of which resulted in my father's capture on 23 January at Saunnu. Another memory I have from my dad's infrequent WW2 reminiscences was his like for New Zealanders! This must have been thanks to NZ-PoWs he was in contact with in the camps. Thanks so much for your response.
Hi I have to apologise, and I looked at the wrong fight. So here the correction. Having checked again, I now suspect your father was with one of two batteries (either 19 or 21 Battery, I suspect the latter as it appears his name is reported missing from that battery) of 7 S.A. Fld Regt which was under command 2 Support Group, 1 Armoured Division. On 23 January these guns fought around Saunnu, 19 Battery together with the British gunners of the 11 R.H.A., the Honourable Artillery Company, working with 10 Hussars, and 21 Battery with 9 Lancers and both suffered heavy losses. I have sent you a PM. All the best Andreas
My Dads journey was written up by my Mother after his death . "They were taken to Derna by lorry, then on a tram ride to a mountain barracks. From there they were put on the railway at Solok to Benghazi and by ship to Tripoli. They were then put aboard a German ship, to be sent to Italy. Among the other prisoners was a South African, Bill Norton, with whom Maurice became very friendly. Maurice and Bill discovered that on the ship was a store-room of food and by some devious means they stole some tins of fruit. They kept the tins, which were very solidly made. They landed at Naples and were put into the charge of the Italian Army in a camp at Capua. After a time they were moved much further north, to Campo 52 at Chiavari, on the coast near Genoa. Maurice and Bill were in this camp for some time." Dad was in HUT 35 with Bill at PG52 with many South African POW. He was eventually moved to PG 202 Lucca Hospital and Bill went to Stalag 4B Muhlberg (Elbe), Germany after the Italian capitulation.
SA POW in dads address book; Initials Surname: Camp Rank: Service Number: Service: H L Buys ? Driver 40723 South African Army C F Lebotschy 202 Private 79525 South African Army W Norton 52 Sapper 255444 South African Army H Rothschild 52 Private 243193 South African Army A E Simpson 52 Private 108476 South African Army V E Trollip 52 Driver 29346 South African Army L H Van Der Riet 52 Private 107832 South African Army
Can identify the following possibilities: Spezia, 16 Dec with 300 'English' POW Brook, 21 Dec, with 400 coloured POW (unlikely I guess) Ercole, 22 Dec with 1,400 white 'English' POW Ankara 22 Dec with 1,700 POW All the best Andreas
STOP PRESS The objects and documents appertaining to Campo PG 52 Pian di Coreglia (Chiavari) are now in the small museum near to the site of the camp. The museum is in a building named Casa Sartù Google Maps Fabio Zavatteri, son of the camp's adjutant who saved all these items from falling into the hands of the Germans 79 YEARS AGO TODAY is arranging these items in what he describes as his spare time! As I indicated above, I will be there on 27 September and will get a copy of your father's POW card, Skelly. Janet
. Hi Janet, Thanks for the update, street view shot bought back happy memories of 5 years ago when we were there
Skelly, I will post his card on a private message. I have also amended the Google maps reference as the material is above the shop in this building, which is across the road from the Lacito Cuneo museum.
