48 Division Signals 1940 Peter Fleming 2320000

Discussion in 'Searching for Someone & Military Genealogy' started by Christopher Boardman, Jun 18, 2021.

  1. Please advise how you are able to determine if a man served in the Commandos. My uncle served in the Royal Signals and I have his service records and medals, second hand account has him involved in the Dieppe raid. Also newspaper reports states he was in Combined Operations and made landings in North Africa,Italy, Sicily. His service records only states Royal Signals, do any records exist of any service in Combined Operations or Commandos and where would I find this information.
    Please advise the movements of the 48 Division Signals 1940 - 1945 the service records for Peter Fleming 2320000 Signalman, state he was with the unit and I would like to investigate his movements within this unit to determine if my uncle could be linked to Combined Operations and any Operations he was involved with.
     
  2. CL1

    CL1 116th LAA and 92nd (Loyals) LAA,Royal Artillery

    Welcome Chris
    second hand account would that be family folk lore?

    if you post his records then forum members will be able to help you further also include the newspaper report if you have it

    regards
    Clive
     
    Last edited: Jun 19, 2021
  3. Please find service record of Peter Fleming 2320000.
     

    Attached Files:

  4. Peter Fleming servi
     

    Attached Files:

  5. Newspaper report of involvement in Combined Operations.
     

    Attached Files:

  6. Hello Clive
    Account of being at Dieppe comes from his sister, whom he relayed story of being involved. Service records state he sustained an injury 16-8-42,date of operation 19-8-42.

    Regards
    Christopher Boardman
     
  7. Tullybrone

    Tullybrone Senior Member

    Hi,

    You have attached his various statement of services forms that give an overview of his army service. Have you any army forms B103 (AF B103)? They provide more granular detail of a man’s movements.

    Steve
     
    CL1 likes this.
  8. CL1

    CL1 116th LAA and 92nd (Loyals) LAA,Royal Artillery

    Hello Chris

    Re the newspaper report would they not report what they are told by an individual.
    Said individual is interviewed and states they were on combined operations so the newspaper reports they were on combined operations.If he had been involved in Dieppe would that not have been stated in the news item.

    have you applied for his full service records here Get a copy of military service records

    regards
    Clive
     
  9. Tricky Dicky

    Tricky Dicky Don'tre member

    Some background if not already seen - Combined Operations in WW2 Home Page

    Service record Peter Fleming 2 (2).jpg

    According to this his movements were
    26 Jan 1940 - 26 Apr 1940 - Home (i.e. within UK)
    27 Apr 1940 - 04 Jun 1940 - BEF
    05 Jun 1940 - 16 Jun 1943 - Home (i.e. within UK)
    17 Jun 1943 - 07 Nov 1943 - North Africa
    08 Nov 1943 - 22 Dec 1945 - Home (i.e. within UK)

    Dieppe Raid - Wikipedia
    Operation Jubilee or the Dieppe Raid (19 August 1942)

    I havent seen any other Dieppe servicemen records so unsure if they would have 'Home' against there record for that one day raid

    TD
     
  10. I will look through the service records for B103, as fat as I am aware I do not think this is present. I have applied and received the full service records, he joined at 18 in around 1926 so other items in the records are not relevant in my search. My query regarding the records would be if a man went on an operation for 1 day or several days would this be stated on his service records or recorded somewhere else?
    The records state being in North Africa but not Italy, Sicily, but he has the medals for these campaigns.
    Thanks for all your help.
     
  11. Tricky Dicky

    Tricky Dicky Don'tre member

    His service records should tell you what units he was with for example in North Africa, so whether they were involved in Sicily would be the route to a possible Italy Star
    The Italy Star is awarded for operational service in Sicily or Italy between 11 July 1943 and 8 May 1945. Those who served in Yugoslavia, Greece, Corsica or Sardinia between certain other specified dates will also qualify.
    To apply for the Italy Star, you must have:
    1 day of operational service in the army in the above qualifying areas
    1 day of operational service as ground crew in the RAF in the above qualifying areas
    1 operational sortie as aircrew in the RAF in the above qualifying areas
    1 day afloat on operational service in the above qualifying areas in the Royal Navy and already qualified for the 1939 to 1945 Star

    It makes me wonder how he would have an Africa Star as he arrived there after the qualification period
    Africa Star
    The Africa Star is awarded to personnel who served in North Africa, Malta or Egypt between 10 June 1940 and 12 May 1943.
    To apply for the Africa Star, you must have:
    1 day of operational service in the army in the above qualifying areas
    1 day of operational service as ground crew in the RAF in the above qualifying areas
    1 operational sortie as aircrew in the RAF in the above qualifying areas
    1 day afloat in the Mediterranean in the Royal Navy

    But he would have been in North Africa to help feed the Italian campaign. A good readable copy of the service record should help

    TD
     
    Tullybrone likes this.
  12. Thanks I have a copy of service records in PDF form but file appears to large to post, will try and get readable copy.
     
  13. Tullybrone

    Tullybrone Senior Member

    One of the other statement of service forms state he was evacuated from BEF in 1940 Richard.

    My experience is that the various statement of services forms can state inaccurate detail. You often see men who saw service in Italy only being shown as being in (British) North Africa (Force) (and Middle East Forces) when they were actually part of AAI (Allied Armies Italy) and it is only the B103 that clarifies matters. Men on the strength of BNAF & MEF can be eligible for the Italy Star without setting foot on Italian soil.

    Steve

    EDIT TO ADD

    If he had gone to Dieppe on Operation Jubilee that should be recorded on his statement of services document. I’ve seen the statement of services of men who went on other Commando Operations continue their short absence from U.K. and the men who went to France as part of the short lived 2nd BEF in early June 1940 also have their handful of days in Europe recorded on their papers. Having said that there are regular clerical errors......
     
  14. Tricky Dicky

    Tricky Dicky Don'tre member

    Allied invasion of Sicily - Wikipedia
    Husky began on the night of 9–10 July 1943, and ended on 17 August.

    This would have been the most likely event that gave your relative the Italy Star. As for an Africa Star I still cannot see why he would be awarded one but then I am not officially responsible in that regard, however if you want clarification -

    Contact the MOD Medal Office
    You can contact the Medal Office in writing or via email.
    DBS-Medals@mod.gov.uk
    MOD Medal Office
    Room G36
    Innsworth House
    Imjin Barracks
    Gloucester
    GL3 1HW
    Telephone enquiries are handled by the Joint Personnel Administration Centre (JPAC).
    Freephone (UK only): 0800 085 3600
    Telephone (from overseas): +44 141 224 3600

    TD
     
  15. Richard Lewis

    Richard Lewis Member

    I can't see from Fleming's records that he was awarded the Africa Star. I think Christopher meant that he had a medal for Italy/Sicily.

    Richard
     
  16. Tricky Dicky

    Tricky Dicky Don'tre member

    Richard - just trying to be clear

    TD
     
    Richard Lewis likes this.
  17. I have looked through the records, and I am unable to find B103, the brief record of service states N. Africa 17-6-43 to 7-11-43, but does not state any service in Italy yet he was awarded the Italy Star and nothing for Africa, how is a man's service documented if he is on an operation not with his usual unit and only for a short period. The only mention of his unit I can find is the 48th Div Signals.
     
  18. MongoUK

    MongoUK Junior Member

    It also says that he was awarded the France and Germany Star, which is for service in North West Europe after 6th June 44, but the rest of the records says he was at home.

    Something doesn't add up...
     
  19. Tricky Dicky

    Tricky Dicky Don'tre member

    Mongo, you only needed 1 day in the 'operational area' to qualify which could have been missed off his record but obtaining them may clarify

    Medals: campaigns, descriptions and eligibility
    The France and Germany Star is awarded for operational service in France, Belgium, Luxembourg, The Netherlands or Germany between 6 June 1944 and 8 May 1945.
    To apply for the France and Germany Star, you must have:
    1 day of operational service in the army in the above qualifying areas

    TD
     
  20. Steve49

    Steve49 Boycott P&O...

    Good afternoon,

    I don't have a Peter Fleming listed with either No3 or No4 Commando taking part on the Raid. I am missing about 100 personnel from No3 Commando, so it possible he could have been in one of the LCP's that was unable to land, but if he was injured on the 16th, it's also possible he was unable take part due to that.

    Regards,

    Steve
     

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