Reserved Occupations

Discussion in 'United Kingdom' started by Phillip, Aug 23, 2009.

  1. Morning all from Oz

    So if a man failed the medical for active service, where was he placed?

    Sorry for the very general question - I know a bit about what happened here in Australia - very little about the process in the UK.
     
  2. Osborne2

    Osborne2 Well-Known Member

    There were different categories of 'fitness', both medical and mental , you could be called up and even deaf or blind in one eye, or under 5 foot tall, low IQ, they could find a unit where you would be placed but maybe not front line. Home Defence battalions were unfit for overseas service, eg 6th South Lancashires. Pioneer Corps tended to take those regarded as low IQ or 'weedy' (my choice of term). It was full of very bright writers and university types as a result of the latter!

    From 1941 onwards, previous mass conscription had robbed some industries of critically skilled men and some were allowed to go back to industry for set periods if designated Class W. I have seen one infantryman permanently posted from the army to the Merchant Navy in late 41.
     
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  3. Thank you for this, much appreciated. I think the one I'm looking for was "unfit" in some way and ended up in some sort of Home Defence post. My guess would be in Gloucestershire or London, but aren't sure.
     
  4. Red Goblin

    Red Goblin Senior Member

    Sorry but beware titular "(Provisional)" status warning - it's just a snapshot of a very fluid situation best not regarded as anything like static. See attached 4-page content listing of my relevant research folder for a 'chapter & verse' idea of just how fluid.. What's more, as some of you may recall from my draughtsman dad's case, even being earmarked was no barrier to enlistment but rather a headache for employers later wanting to reclaim key employees from priority Home Defence units as opposed to mere BEF 'gun fodder'.

    As an aside, a certain popular and higher-ranking film actor in my dad's SL group was more quickly reclaimed so that he could continue making morale-boosting flicks.
     

    Attached Files:

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  5. Buteman

    Buteman 336/102 LAA Regiment (7 Lincolns), RA

    Makes sense for me, as Dad was a Slater and Tiler. According to the list, reserved age was 25, but was called up in July 1940 age 26. His unit's (LAA) last action in May 1945, was to destroy 2 church towers being used by the Germans as OP's. I have a tile presented to me by the Dutch elders of Sint Martinus Kerk in 2015, from the remains of the church. A stunning rebuild was carried out post war.

    After the war, Dad returned to Tiling and worked on a church tower in Lordship Lane, Dulwich, a half a mile away where I grew up. I wish he were still around, so I could tell him how proud of him and his journey.
     
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  6. Red Goblin

    Red Goblin Senior Member

    Clive's new thread - Reserved Occupations 1939 | WW2Talk - may help, if only because his linked list contains 7 instances of the word "carpenter" - albeit one an index redirection from the deprecated term "joiner". On the other hand, none of my 194 topical Times pages does so - so it seems to have been an uncontentious trade overall. Nor forget, for instance, the precision lightweight wooden airframe which so helped one certain insect hit so hard where it hurt the Axis. [STOP PRESS - Sorry but I forgot Times result nil simply because their PDF page scans are purely graphic (with no embedded OCR text such as the British Library's neutral BNA automatically issue)]

    And please never be so ignorantly-rude as to undervalue UK Home Defence - let alone dismiss it as "unfit" in any way other than inappropriate in certain contexts - for that was our primary concern in the early years before the tide began to turn in our favour. It was just a pragmatic case of 'horses for courses' teamwork with everybody knuckling down to their allotted roles in the great 'war machine' before the Japs provoked Uncle Sam into finally lifting a reluctant finger.

    On a lighter note, to finish, this topical excerpt from the very first episode of Dad's Army;
    • Evening, gents !
    • Name ?
    • My card.
    • "Joe Walker, wholesale supplier."
      I suppose you won't be with us long.
      You'll be called up any day.
    • Oh, no, guv.
      I'm whatsitsname ?
      Reserved occupation.
    • How do you work that out ?
    • I supply central supplies.
    • Any previous military experience ?
    • A girlfriend in the ATS !
    • Sign here.
    • Oh, by the way, any time you gents require anything, just give us a tip.
    • We'll bear it in mind.
    • Right turn !
      Quick march !
    • Pardon ?
    • Right turn !
      Quick march !
    • You might wait for the ink to dry !
    Steve
     
    Last edited: Jun 20, 2021
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  7. Sorry, I didn't intend to demean the Home Guard in any way. Far from it - my great-grandfather was in the equivalent in Australia and patrolled the coastal regions of far North Queensland. While my other great-grandfather served in New Guinea. The great war machine did indeed require all different parts and roles in all different countries.

    I'm just not familiar with where to look for further information on someone in the UK who served in a role on the homefront so to speak.

    With no electoral rolls or such for that period I'm a bit lost.
     
  8. Red Goblin

    Red Goblin Senior Member

    You and me both, CS, as my cross-reference seems to have triggered a knee-jerk thread merge which lost some posts and threw others out of context. Gee, thanks !

    Despite quoting Dad's Army, I was mainly championing our regular Home Defence forces - land, sea and air - our latter RAF most notably aided by RAAF, RCAF and free Polish airmen IIRC.

    As the losses seem to include your case history posts, I can't easily recheck your needs but here are 4 off-the-cuff ideas despite that:
    • Paper copies of old Electoral Registers tend to be kept by local libraries amongst other local history bumph (see Electoral registration - The National Archives) so you might try twisting some kind soul's arm to act as your proxy (say a relative or local history society naturally pending covid-safe access)? The only ready-digitised versions I'd hope to find online would be limited exercises typically hosted by RootsWeb rather than their creators' own websites. It's not really my neck of the woods but I seem to remember you mentioning Gloucs - in which case, maybe start by checking out the Forest of Dean Local History Society as the only one I currently have bookmarked thereabouts. I haven't a clue how anyone is supposed to find it from their home page but their links page is here to hopefully lead you on to another society nearer your target community.
    • Quasi-census UK 1939 Register - officially c/o FMP but also on Ancestry though I'm not sure whether you can get it as my nearest Oz cousin once complained of regional discrimination denying him access to some UK records. But, if my Ancestry link does let you search and you just lack a subscription to view candidate pages, don't forget your local library probably offers you free rate-funded access to ALE. But also note that both FMP and ALE licences are for specific library IP addresses and thus rule out covid-safe home access. Alternatively wait for one of their promotional free access events - if they haven't given up offering them as carrots.
    • Leicester Uni offer OCR-text-embedded scans of Historical Directories but their webmaster has irresponsibly abandoned retro-compatibility to require 'bleeding edge' browsers such as I don't have. So, just suck it to see if it works for you.
    • Finally, Cyndi's List - the staple web gateway for rookie family historians seeking online resources. Not the most intuitive of websites but the simplest way in is c/o the home page's topmost button - labelled "Categories" - and then just follow your nose.
     
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  9. jeffbubble

    jeffbubble Senior Member

     
  10. Uncle Target

    Uncle Target Mist over Dartmoor

    If I was a Carpenter.........

    Oh yes he was and his family (wife and four children) were bombed out in Bristol twice,
    before he was conscripted aged 34.

    Souvenir Photo "Somewhere in Burma in WW2" Not got a clue who the man on the right is.

    General Service: Signaller Disembarked India (Deolali) 20.12.43 posted Bawli South Lancs Regt. Calcutta1st Wilts .
    Field 14th Army Signals, L/Cpl Instructor School of Infantry / Signals Poona. Ended his service at HQ 1st Wilts. Northern India Returned to his trade as a Carpenter 1946.

    Somewhere in Burma in WW2.jpg
     
    Last edited: Jul 30, 2023
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  11. Shiny 9th

    Shiny 9th Member

    The 1939 Household Register has a column for people to describe any medical conditions preventing military service . I have a note of a man who had " Incapacitated" entered by his name. He did suffer from several physical problems, and at 34 yrs of age he was never called up. His disabilities were not visible and his status caused his mother much social embarrassment. How much evidence a man had to produce to have " Incapacitated" included in tge Register, I have never discovered.
     
  12. GeoffMNZ

    GeoffMNZ Well-Known Member

    My Grandfathers Cousins son was;
    >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
    EVENING POST, VOLUME CXXXI, ISSUE 132, 6 JUNE 1941, PAGE 9

    OVERSEAS SERVICE APPEAL BOARD DECISIONS

    Sine die. adjournments were granted in a number of appeals heard by the Armed Forces Appeal Board today, and in all cases it was made a condition that the reservists should join the Emergency Fire Service within fourteen days.
    The appeals concerned were: —De Havilland Aircraft Co., Ltd., on behalf of L. G. Prichard, carpenter; S. G. Cosslett, aero engineer's assistant; James Mclsaac, aircraft engineer; A. B. L. Turner, body builder; J. S. Muir, aircraft rigger; Ivan Reading, aircraft engineer; G. R. Carnham, specialised journeyman.et al
    De Havilland had a factory producing military training aircraft at Rongatai Airport in Wellington, New Zealand.
    >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
     
  13. jeffbubble

    jeffbubble Senior Member

    Bit of a Mystery, Dad Served Apprenticeship as Motor Mechanic in small country garage, he then turned up in Slough Working in Aircraft Factory it appears that about five of his mates did similar, was this country wide? 1937?
    He was then Employed at RNAD Broughton Moor as Fitter 1938. He had obsession about Motor Torpedo boats and wanted to Join up He tried three times but was then warned that he would be imprisoned if he tried again. He did join the AFS as well, but seemed to have a lot of Independence as he had Petrol to use and firearms at home?
     
    Last edited: Dec 14, 2023
  14. Uncle Target

    Uncle Target Mist over Dartmoor

    From my family book:
    One of my cousins lived in Swansea, her father was a toolmaker.
    In 1938 they moved to Bristol where he was sent by the Ministry of Labour to work as an engineer in the Bristol Aircraft Company.
    He spent the war repairing damaged aircraft.
     
  15. jeffbubble

    jeffbubble Senior Member

     
  16. jeffbubble

    jeffbubble Senior Member

    So it looks like the Ministry of Labour was calling the shots with skilled men, between 36/38
     
  17. CL1

    CL1 116th LAA and 92nd (Loyals) LAA,Royal Artillery

    The preparation for war perhaps on the mind of employers to ensure the skills were available in the event of war

    From Hansard December 1938 they were discussing National Service but a mention of Reserved Occupation

    Friend announced to the House and of the Schedule of Reserved Occupations which is now in course of preparation. The House will see that this scheme is a plan for the effective utilisation of the resources of the nation for national voluntary service. The national service scheme has two aims. The first is to encourage, inspire and guide a free people to enrol themselves to undergo training in peace time for the services they could best render on the outbreak of war. The second is to ensure that volunteers for service should not be enrolled if they would not be available to be called on for such service in war time owing to the essential nature of their occupation. We have for some time been working at the Ministry of Labour on the preparation of a guide to the many and varied services needing volunteers and the details of a classification of occupations which would be reserved in time of war. I have noted a few sneers outside the House at these documents which are being prepared, but I want to say quite plainly that, in my judgment, those sneers are not well-founded.
    NATIONAL SERVICE. (Hansard, 20 December 1938)
     
    Last edited: Dec 14, 2023
  18. Osborne2

    Osborne2 Well-Known Member

  19. Osborne2

    Osborne2 Well-Known Member

    Once the war began, those who were not listed as reserved occupations but who were called up may have had a conditional 'out' under the Class W {regular} or W(T) {territorial army}.1
    This classification was created ‘for all those soldiers whose services are deemed to be more valuable to the country in civil rather than military employment’. These Class W men no longer drew army pay, could not wear uniforms, and were not subject to military discipline but could be recalled at any time.When the army faced demographic shortages in 1941 and told it could no longer just keep calling up men, it began a process of reorganisation and skills analysis in which they did begin to release men back into civilian life where their skills were critical to the war effort as well as moving men out of existing units into the wartime newly created corps, such as catering, RAOC, REME etc.


    1.These classes were introduced originally in World War I by Army Order 203/16. ‘Wills’, ‘Help needed deciphering records,’ WW2Talk
     

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