1st Bn Queen's Own Cameron Highlanders In France

Discussion in '1940' started by brickmaker, Aug 2, 2010.

  1. cameronlad

    cameronlad Member

    The three pages are attached here.

    Meanwhile an urgent appeal. Please could anyone help to identify who or what the following reference is in my dad's Service & Pay Book as part of my ongoing research into the details of his post Dunkirk service.
    The wording in the book reads "OVERSEAS SERVICE. A&S GROUP. 17/C."
    Does A&S refer to the Argyle & Sutherland Highlanders?

    The background info on this is that instead of remaining with 1st Battalion on return to England, he was sent to the Caribbean in late 1940 as part of the 4th Bn QOCH, ostensibly to 'relieve' the small Vichy French force on the island of Aruba and help protect the Dutch oil refineries there.

    Basically it was like extended leave for two years. The eye of the storm before coming back via America just in time for more hell in the North Africa, Italy and Normandy theatres as a (by then) fully re-trained medical orderley with the RAMC. He served on HMHS Llandovery Castle from 1943 to 1945.
     

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  2. 51highland

    51highland Very Senior Member

    He would have sailed August 1940 for Aruba. The 4th battalion also had a strong detachment in Bermuda. They returned February 1942 joining 46 Brig in 15th Scottish Div. In November 1942 they went to the Shetland Isles. In December 1942 they were re-designated 2nd Camerons. They in turn left the Shetlands and sailed for Egypt December 1943.
     
  3. tommy40

    tommy40 Member

    Maritime Hospital at Zuydcoote beach april 2011.
    The photo is taken from the west... The place where George GAIR's tag was found in the 90's is on the foreground. In 1940 there was no sand dunes, or few in front of that Hospital. Just on the left the beach...
    Quiet place now...
     

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  4. Drew5233

    Drew5233 #FuturePilot 1940 Obsessive

  5. cameronlad

    cameronlad Member

    He would have sailed August 1940 for Aruba. The 4th battalion also had a strong detachment in Bermuda. They returned February 1942 joining 46 Brig in 15th Scottish Div. In November 1942 they went to the Shetland Isles. In December 1942 they were re-designated 2nd Camerons. They in turn left the Shetlands and sailed for Egypt December 1943.

    Dad's details show he embarked for the W.Indies with the 4th Bn QOCH on 9th August 1940. He was on Aruba until 12/11/42 before returning via a three day stint in Bermuda 13 to 15/11/42. Apparently no enemy action ever happened on the island until a week after he left, at which point a German U-Boat fired a torpedo at one of the oil terminals and missed. It ended up on the beach as a tourist spot for US troops who had then taken over duties on the island. By then my dad was homeward bound via a closed train journey through America (New Orleans to Fort Slocum - a US military R&R transit base near New Jersey). The train was shuttered all the way. Apparently having 'foreign' troops on US soil was still a sensitive issue then! Nevertheless he spent 30 days there awaiting the next troop transport in convoy back to Blighty, arriving in the UK on 16/12/42. But the latter recorded date seems to be out of sync with your dates given for the 4th Bn as shown above!
     
  6. cameronlad

    cameronlad Member

    Attached are two pics of Fort Slocum, the US transit base for British troops nr New Jersey, USA. The old fort was a relic from the days of the American civil war. It's now a tourist spot.
     

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  7. 51highland

    51highland Very Senior Member

    Was browsing through October 1944 issue of 79th News, and found 2932872 Pte J Tinney listed as repatriated May 1944. Will check to see if any others are listed.

    Also found 2927129 Pte J hartley May 1944.
    2928744 Pte A.M. Philips Sept 44
    2924692 Pte W Robertson Sept 44
     
  8. Drew5233

    Drew5233 #FuturePilot 1940 Obsessive

    I thought this might interest you Garry, every little helps-I found it in the 5 Bde's war diary.

    [​IMG]
     
  9. Tom Canning

    Tom Canning WW2 Veteran WW2 Veteran

    Cameron lad

    In one of your postings you refer to the War service A&S 17/c

    This does NOT refer to the Argylls but the age and service group which was the routine for release at the end of hostilities- this number was allocated early on in your service and my release number was A&S group 50 which meant I was released with all others in the 50 group in May of 1947 having joined in 1942

    Cheers
     
  10. 51highland

    51highland Very Senior Member

    Thanks for that Drew. I have Eric Mainwarings address somewhere, last I heard of him he sent me a letter last year. He is/was alive and well in Canada.
     
  11. cameronlad

    cameronlad Member

    Many thanks Drew and Tom for your very helpful posts. The Mainwaring diary is precious in so far as it fills in so much vivid detail about the what-happened-next journey out of La Bassee. I have to say that you guys (and the late Ernie Oates) and the ww2talk website have been gems in helping piece together so much vital information on this particular event. It's been like getting monthly instalments in a long winding drama!
    Trouble is, Drew, is the Mainwaring account really down to a single page? I hope not because I'm hanging in mid air here! What happened next??? Is there anything more about his later movements to and around the area of Dunkirk - and was he the officer with the mystery Jocks who went back to fight elsewhere? Maybe 51 Highlander can find Mainwaring's letter, too!
     
  12. 51highland

    51highland Very Senior Member

    Eric Mainwaring got back to England with "Ark Force" and was my Fathers Platoon officer with 1st & 2nd Liverpool Scottish in East Anglia. He would be Dad's company commander at times with 5th Camerons North Africa and N.W.E. He would be awarded the MC for his actions with 5th Camerons Carrier platoon on 16th January 1943 at the Buerat postions.
     
  13. Drew5233

    Drew5233 #FuturePilot 1940 Obsessive

    Thats all there is by him-that I've noticed. There is however an account by the Brigade Commander that runs to a few pages and includes what the other battalions were doing too (I've not read it yet).
     
  14. cameronlad

    cameronlad Member

    It would be interesting to see what the Brigade commander says about the Worcs at La Bassee. Their own officer accounts of that event are scarce on detail, although I've got a few pages of personal recollections from one of the signals linemen attached to them.
    Re - Mainwairing. Pity there's not more about or by him. The last post from 51 Highlander mentions he ended up with Ark Force. Again it's tantalising because it suggests a number of possibilities as to his movements. Either he got away from Dunkirk on an English ship, and then went back to France via England - or - he embarked on a French ship from Dunkirk to Le Havre or Cherbourg. The latter case could fit the scenario around the mystery Jocks. Either way, I know he and Kerr led my father's platoon out of La Bassee.
    Footnote to 51 Highlander: My dad first joined the Liverpool Scottish in Liverpool, aged 17. On his eighteenth birthday he enlisted full time with the QOCH.
     
  15. 51highland

    51highland Very Senior Member

    Sorry, scrub that re Ark Force, was confusing him with some other research on 4th Camerons.
     
  16. 51highland

    51highland Very Senior Member

    Thought you might like a face to a name. Mjr. E.N. Mainwaring MC.(front row far right) with 5th Camerons Germany 1945. (The officer, centre holding dog is Tony Noble, Father of Richard Noble of land speed record jet car fame).
     

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  17. cameronlad

    cameronlad Member

    Can anyone clarify the length of service required to qualify for service chevrons during WW2 ?
    Just noticed in my father's service and pay book that he was "granted 4 chevrons w.e.f 3/9/39". The entry is then rubber stamped, dated 12 May 1944.
     
  18. richieuk2002

    richieuk2002 Junior Member

    As promised, attached with this post are images of the full lists for the 1st Btn Camerons who embarked (two dates given) in 1939 with the BEF. Some private research notes showing a dot and pencilled date denotes a man KIA.

    I hope the lists will answer or help many researchers and families in years to come because history and the right to access it freely in the public domain belongs to the ordinary, unknown and unnamed men and women who made it happen. Garry.


    My grandfather was in the Camerons and is on the 2nd page of the list, his name Private R Heighton. We have many photographs of him in the Camerons, I will upload to the site.
     
  19. richieuk2002

    richieuk2002 Junior Member

    My grandfather was in the qoch before and during WW2, he fought at Le Basse, and was captured months later after being hidden by the resistance. He was in a jail for interrogation and moved to lamsdorf stalag VIIIB. He was there until he and all the other POW's, carried out the death march. I have posted some pictures of him and others maybe some one may recognise someone.
     

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  20. Drew5233

    Drew5233 #FuturePilot 1940 Obsessive

    Many thanks for posting the pics. I'm sure a few members will be happy to see them.

    There is a thread on here about the march from Lamsdorf Stalag VIIIB by dbf. You might find that interesting.

    Andy
     

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