Jobee, It might be your job to search and confirm but here is a testimony from someone who actually was there. You've decided that Operation Market Garden was a Clanger because 2,400 Americans didnt come back - why are you only mentioning the 82nd, The 101st and the British Airborne were also involved, yet you keep avoiding talking about them. Oh yeah, and XXX Corps also. you can send my invite to my boards.ie account thanks! That's because I only knew men from the 82nd, they gave us free chewy and dried egg powder,and we had never seen so many french letters in the woods on the park.
I don't ridicule you*, perhaps you could take the same tack. QUOTE Apologies, I never took God serious. But this chappie did. Hitler was a Christian.Read on, scroll down Nazi Artifacts: Mementoes, Badges, Pins and Painting Nazi Artifacts: Mementoes, Badges, Pins and Painting Stalin was an atheist, so I guess that means that all atheists are evil also, if we follow your analogy. People can claim to be anything, doesn't mean they actually are. You try to have us think you are not a Vogon, but I have my doubts. This forum is called WW2Talk for a reason and it is not for it's religous discussion.
Stalin was an atheist, so I guess that means that all atheists are evil also, if we follow your analogy. People can claim to be anything, doesn't mean they actually are. You try to have us think you are not a Vogon, but I have my doubts. This forum is called WW2Talk for a reason and it is not for it's religous discussion. You brought religion up."Southern by the grace of God". 2 Stalin was not an atheist initially, he started life as a choir boy then 5 years as a preacher. Young Stalin, choir boy, preacher, poet Read on young stalin - Google Search To Rapheal Eristavi By Josef Stalin When the laments of the toiling peasents Had moved you to tears of pity, You groaned to the heavens, oh bard, Placed at the head of the people's heads; When the peoples welfare Had pleasently exalted you, You made your strings sweetly sound, Like a man sent forth by heaven; When you sang hymes to the motherland, That was your love, For her your harp brought forth A heart-enrapturing twang... Then oh Bard, a Goergian Would listen to you as to a heavenly monument And for your labours and woes of the past Has crowned you with the present. Your words have in his heart Now put down roots; Reap, grey-haird saint, What you sowed in your youth; For a sickle, use the people' Heartfelt cry in the air; ' Hurray for Raphael May there be many Sons like thee in the fatherland.
Stalin was an atheist, so I guess that means that all atheists are evil also, if we follow your analogy. People can claim to be anything, doesn't mean they actually are. You try to have us think you are not a Vogon, but I have my doubts. This forum is called WW2Talk for a reason and it is not for it's religous discussion. Hitler WAS a Christian, he thought God was guiding him. Nazi Artifacts: Mementoes, Badges, Pins and Painting Cut and paste.
Jobee, I'm not going to discuss religion with you in this thread, no matter how often you try to drag it off subject. Regardless, the title you claim that I use to "bring up religion", has more to do with the pride I have in living where I live than in promoting Christianity. I guess you were too busy trying to find tenuous links to historical persons' past and their later, adult behavior to even make the connection.
Jobee, I'm not going to discuss religion with you in this thread, no matter how often you try to drag it off subject. Regardless, the title you claim that I use to "bring up religion", has more to do with the pride I have in living where I live than in promoting Christianity. I guess you were too busy trying to find tenuous links to historical persons' past and their later, adult behavior to even make the connection. I dont want to talk religion, its horrid stuff, many Popes were far worse that Hitler/Slalin. One inquisition lasted 600 years, murder ,torture, burnings. They created hell on earth for centuries. Thanks for the conversation.john
Hitler WAS a Christian, he thought God was guiding him. Maybe you'd like to read 'Mein Kampf', it gives you a good impression on Hitler and his religious beliefs (yeah I read it, so I know). Maybe you should also take into consideration that 'gottgläubig' is not the same as 'Christian'. And read my post above. Other than that the discussion might be heaps jollier if you quit dissing people's religion as this tends to light things up quite explosively and isn't really WW2 related either. So, instead of risking havoc in this thread you might like to discuss this on another forum where religious debates are actually fruitful. PS: Just out of curiousity ref. sources: Where did Hitler state that God was guiding him?
Maybe you'd like to read 'Mein Kampf', it gives you a good impression on Hitler and his religious beliefs (yeah I read it, so I know). Maybe you should also take into consideration that 'gottgläubig' is not the same as 'Christian'. And read my post above. Other than that the discussion might be heaps jollier if you quit dissing people's religion as this tends to light things up quite explosively and isn't really WW2 related either. So, instead of risking havoc in this thread you might like to discuss this on another forum where religious debates are actually fruitful. PS: Just out of curiousity ref. sources: Where did Hitler state that God was guiding him? Heimbrent, I do believe Jobee is referring to "Gott mitt uns" on the belt of every German Soldier. Mind you, every Army claims God is on their side except the Soviets of course.
Heimbrent, I do believe Jobee is referring to "Gott mitt uns" on the belt of every German Soldier. Mind you, every Army claims God is on their side except the Soviets of course. I know he was. But the German belt buckle really doesn't have a lot to do with Hitler's own belief. As you say, it was the German soldier's belt (Wehrmacht, actually). You couldn't just take away religion and substitute it by a Führer or not substitute it at all. So most Germans just remained Christians. Actually, same goes for the Soviets. Religion had played an important role in the life of Russians, and that didn't change all that much after the Soviets came to power (certainly it superficially did). But most people don't just give up their faith. So, even tho in the Red Army there was no room for God on belt buckles, the average soldier surely wasn't atheist. One more thing: If the German belt buckle is brought up as a proof for Hitlers Christianity, wouldn't it really make more sense if the SS version of the buckle is taken as criterion? And that one is all about the NS-kind of honour and faith, not God...
I know he was. But the German belt buckle really doesn't have a lot to do with Hitler's own belief. As you say, it was the German soldier's belt (Wehrmacht, actually). You couldn't just take away religion and substitute it by a Führer or not substitute it at all. So most Germans just remained Christians. Actually, same goes for the Soviets. Religion had played an important role in the life of Russians, and that didn't change all that much after the Soviets came to power (certainly it superficially did). But most people don't just give up their faith. So, even tho in the Red Army there was no room for God on belt buckles, the average soldier surely wasn't atheist. One more thing: If the German belt buckle is brought up as a proof for Hitlers Christianity, wouldn't it really make more sense if the SS version of the buckle is taken as criterion? And that one is all about the NS-kind of honour and faith, not God... Hitlers father was a strict Roman Catholic.In Mein Kampf I believe Hitler made references to Martin Luther[I haven't read it yet] It seems he was a religious man. The mixture of religion and politics is very confusing.just me Much scholarly debate has focused on Luther's writings about the Jews. His statements that the Jews' homes should be destroyed, their synagogues burned, money confiscated, and liberty curtailed were revived and used in propaganda by the Nazis from 1933 to 1945.[8] As a result of this and his revolutionary theological views, his legacy remains controversial.[9] Martin Luther - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia Gott mit uns (meaning God with us) is a phrase commonly associated with the German military from the German Empire to the end of the Third Reich, although its historical origins are far older, ultimately tracing back to the Hebrew term Immanuel from the Bible.
Hitlers father was a strict Roman Catholic.In Mein Kampf I believe Hitler made references to Martin Luther[I haven't read it yet] It seems he was a religious man. The mixture of religion and politics is very confusing.just me Much scholarly debate has focused on Luther's writings about the Jews. His statements that the Jews' homes should be destroyed, their synagogues burned, money confiscated, and liberty curtailed were revived and used in propaganda by the Nazis from 1933 to 1945.[8] As a result of this and his revolutionary theological views, his legacy remains controversial.[9] Martin Luther - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia Gott mit uns (meaning God with us) is a phrase commonly associated with the German military from the German Empire to the end of the Third Reich, although its historical origins are far older, ultimately tracing back to the Hebrew term Immanuel from the Bible. As you said: Hitler's father. Himmler was once going for a clerical profession. Stalin was. Does that imply anything about their later relationship to religion? Not really. So, just because Hitler's family was deeply religious doesn't make Adolf so. I don't remember Luther being mentioned in 'Mein Kampf' and found nothing in my notes. But even if he really is mentioned (I suppose with positive connotation?) - do you take that as a proof of Hitler's Christian faith? You are well aware of Luther's stance when it came to the pope and catholic church? Just have a look at the names of some SS divisions and you'll notice that NS ideolgoy was somewhat fond of reference to the German peasants' war. The connection to Jews - from Hitler having mentioned Luther having raged against Jews - is weak, and I'm not even sure what you're actually trying to proof with it. (Of course you could bring up the argument of aversion between catholic church and Jews and thus link Hitler's antisemitism and his religious beliefs, but that's not a valid deduction.) I know what 'Gott mit uns' means. Even if that dates back as far as the bible, which I simply don't know, wouldn't that rather imply it had less to do with Hitler than with the tradition of the German military?
This thread is about MONTY. If you want to discuss his subordinate (God) or some poncing fairies (Hitler and uncle Joe) make another thread.
This thread is about MONTY. If you want to discuss his subordinate (God) or some poncing fairies (Hitler and uncle Joe) make another thread. Second.
As you said: Hitler's father. Himmler was once going for a clerical profession. Stalin was. Does that imply anything about their later relationship to religion? Not really. So, just because Hitler's family was deeply religious doesn't make Adolf so. I don't remember Luther being mentioned in 'Mein Kampf' and found nothing in my notes. But even if he really is mentioned (I suppose with positive connotation?) - do you take that as a proof of Hitler's Christian faith? You are well aware of Luther's stance when it came to the pope and catholic church? Just have a look at the names of some SS divisions and you'll notice that NS ideolgoy was somewhat fond of reference to the German peasants' war. The connection to Jews - from Hitler having mentioned Luther having raged against Jews - is weak, and I'm not even sure what you're actually trying to proof with it. (Of course you could bring up the argument of aversion between catholic church and Jews and thus link Hitler's antisemitism and his religious beliefs, but that's not a valid deduction.) I know what 'Gott mit uns' means. Even if that dates back as far as the bible, which I simply don't know, wouldn't that rather imply it had less to do with Hitler than with the tradition of the German military? I didn't think his fathers name was Himmler. Alois Hitler (born Alois Schicklgruber; 7 June 1837 – 3 January 1903) was the father of Adolf Hitler.
I repeat. dont want to talk religion, its horrid stuff, many Popes were far worse that Hitler/Slalin. One inquisition lasted 600 years, murder ,torture, burnings. They created hell on earth for centuries. Thanks for the conversation.john
I didn't think his fathers name was Himmler. Alois Hitler (born Alois Schicklgruber; 7 June 1837 – 3 January 1903) was the father of Adolf Hitler.
