British Vehicle Markings - a rough guide

Serial 78 for the LAA Regt in Chart 1 for Gds Armd Div is evidently a typo for 73. Other discrepancies between the two charts are also problematic.
The Counter Mortar Battery (Serial 78) in the OOB of Armd Divs comes from Hodges & Taylor. I have no idea when or even whether this was actually implemented. It is probable that it did not exist for the whole of the NWE campaign.

 

And with that, it's gone.
I've also removed the RE HQ from the armoured division and the RAOC HQ from both, based on Gary Kennedy's information in post #48.

 

Based on tables in Wise and in Taylor, Armoured Divisions in Europe 1941-2:



There should also be a Troop Carrying Company RASC, but I'm not sure whether it fits in the structure - whether it's under the RASC HQ or the Support Group HQ. Can anyone shed any light?

 

Again based on Taylor, Infantry Division, Middle East, Early 1941:



There's no mention of RASC, RAMC or RAOC in the source table, but I assume the structure was largely the same as the divisions stationed at home or sent to France in 1940, minus the anti-tank company in each infantry brigade.

Once again, if anyone can help fill in the gaps that'd be great.

 

My interest is in establishing the structure of of the various types of British Army Divisions and the situation does get very fuzzy in the 1941-43 period. The line up of service units (RASC and RAOC in paticular) underwent numerous revisions, and there were differences between Divs in Home Forces and in the ME.

Probably the first time I saw a cohesive description was in the Canadian reports series produced after the war. The Canadian Army followed British Divs in terms of structure very closely, but not without variation, and they did not have to try and keep pace with the multiple changes seen in North Africa. Their report AHQ057 provies snapshots of British Divs at various points in the war;

https://www.canada.ca/content/dam/t...aryhistory/dhh/reports/ahq-reports/ahq057.pdf

Pg2 (PDF pg4); Cdn Inf Div early 1940
Pg4 (PDF pg6); Cdn Inf Div late 1940
Pg6 (PDF pg8); Cdn Inf Div start 1942
pg8 (PDF pg10) Cdn Inf Div start 1943
Appendix A (PDF pg29); Br Inf Div Sep39
Appendix B (PDF pg30); Br Divs (Armd, 'Mixed' and Inf) Oct42
Appendix C (PDF pg 32); Cdn Inf Div May45

Pg12 (PDF pg14); Cdn Armd Div mid-1941
Pg14 (PDF pg16); Cdn Armd Div start 1943
Appendix D (PDF pg 34); Cdn Armd Div May45

The above descriptions are very good and largely follow the evolution in British formations, but still leave some gaps. They still remain the most useful 'clickable' source not derived from wargaming related research that I've seen to date.

Gary

 

Troop Carrying Companies were normally a Corps asset and could lift an entire Inf Bde. As the only unit that needed extra vehicles to lift all its personnel was the Inf Bn in Support Group only a Platoon on TCVs was needed.

Gary

 

Thanks again Gary - I'll see what I can put together from the info in that pdf. Even without the AoS numbers I should still be able to show the divisional structure.

 

Apologies - it turns out this particular book isn't the one. The Bellis I've received today only covers British divisions - mo mention of Commonwealth or Empire forces.

 

Malcolm Bellis has (among others) another booklet entitled 'Commonwealth Divisions 1939-1945'. It covers African, South African, Australian, Canadian, Indian, New Zealand Divisions as well as several Overseas Garrisons, and, into the bargain, covers Belgian, Dutch, Free French, Polish and Italian (on our side) formations.

One problem I find is that many orders of battle only bother to cover Teeth Arms ( Armour, Infantry, Artillery, Recce and Engineers) and totally ignore the supporting arms.

Chris

 

Cheated!

Appreciate your looking nonetheless.

 

I do have a (somewhat worn) copy of "Commonwealth Divisions 1939-45" by Malcolm A Bellis. It only has a few pages of AoS info, mostly for the Australian and New Zealand Divs up to 1942, with an entry each for Free French (1943) and Polish (1944/45) Divs. It does have orbats for the Divs of various of nations, but as mentioned no info on anything on the services side.

Gary

 

A couple more snippets:

The Provost Company was part of the Corps of Military Police (CMP), which became Royal only post-WW2. So it should be CMP instead of RMP.

Divisional Signals was part of the Royal Corps of Signals (RCS).

 

Thanks again. I'll update accordingly.

 

I think I'm nearly there, for Europe at least. Divisions in the Middle East are going to take a bit longer to sort out.

Armoured Divisions - Early, Mid, and Late War


Infantry Divisions - Early, Mid, and Late War


Still a few gaps with the service units unfortunately, but the fighting units are more or less complete.

 

The backing colour for the junior infantry brigade was brown? I did not know that.

These are really good charts!

 

I didn't believe it at first either - doesn't seem like it'd stand out very well.

And thanks, glad you like them!

 

Just want to make sure I've got this right before delving into the AoS numbers for higher-level units:

Corps troops - White bar above the number
Army troops - White bar below the number
Army group troops - Diagonal white bar bottom-left to top-right
GHQ troops - Diagonal white bar top-left to bottom-right

 

Bar coding is correct!

FYI. I have just done a spreadsheet with I Canadian Army troops as well as 1 & 2 Canadian Corps troops from a report dated 10/6/44, stating that it is correct for 6/6/44. Is this any good to you? As a matter of interest, can I upload an Excel file? Or do I have to .pdf it? Cheers

 

That would be brilliant, thank you. An Excel file is fine.

 

Here you are. If you a=have any trouble with my short-hand, please ask!