WW2 resulted in a Cold War

Discussion in 'The Eastern Front' started by T-34, Apr 22, 2006.

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  1. Gerard

    Gerard Seelow/Prora

    Yes it did. It drew an isolationist United States into European Affairs and found itself as the Dominant player on the Continent. Russia after suffering so much during the Great Patriotic War was determined to create a "Buffer zone" with which to deter any further invasions from the West. The Western Allies weren't best pleased that countries like poland, Czechoslovakia and Hungary were falling into the Russian Sphere of influence and made alliances to ensure that any further thoughts that Russia might have had about expansion were curtailed!! Its shameful that the two countries that caused Britain to take a stand against Germany should remain under occupation from a foreign power for a further 40 years, i.e. Poland and Czechoslovakia.
     
  2. spidge

    spidge RAAF RESEARCHER

    I MEANT that one side agrees the other disagrees, we end up with an argument and the thread nigh-on get's closed. Again. That's what i meant by going off in two different directions. It's like watching a tug-o-war. i was merely commenting on the overall tone the thread has started to take with T34 taking Stalin's place.

    Are you yelling at me young Kitty with the pussy (photo) by the tail? I see now what you mean however that is using your crystal ball without a licence.

    If it does turn the same way, I will drop off........simple!

    Ideological I can handle, Stalin was irrepressible!
     
  3. von Poop

    von Poop Adaministrator Admin

    Has the cold war fully ended??
    While The Russian Federation and all the other remaining states reform and decide on their future positions the situation in the Middle east also has a lot of origins in WW2, Has the cold war gone away or is it just morphing into a similar situation but with different polarities? As China gets more and more powerful maybe we in the West will begin to percieve Korea (The War) as the source of the new economic Cold war.
     
  4. Kitty

    Kitty Very Senior Member

    Are you yelling at me young Kitty...
    Is there any point in my yelling at you? Would you take a blind bit of notice?
    ...with the pussy (photo) by the tail?
    You are a grown man with grown up daughters. A little decorum please!;)
    I see now what you mean however that is using your crystal ball without a licence.
    Ain't never had a license and ain't never getting one! Nyah nyah nyah nyah!
    I feel better for that.
    So the general view at present is that WW2 directly led to the Cold War. But now it is being considered that a new type of economic cold war is developing with China. Do others think this?
    Why am i playing referee?
    Kitty
     
  5. T-34

    T-34 Discharged - Nazi

    As for the view that the Soviet Medical Service was the best in the world? I find that hard to believe as again have heard neumerous accounts of the system "doing it's best" while suffering from severe shortages. It may not have been quite as bad as they made out, but 'Best in the World' is also quite a claim.

    "severe shortages" came after gorbatchev's treason and split-up of soviet union as a consequence. unfortunately, it was only a start of the rest of a humiliation ceremony so-called "civilized" world have put us through.

    P.S. - yes, i do claim that soviet medics were the best in the world, and what's most important, medical service at the time was given for absolutely free.
     
  6. jimbotosome

    jimbotosome Discharged

    Russia after suffering so much during the Great Patriotic War was determined to create a "Buffer zone" with which to deter any further invasions from the West.
    I have a misunderstand-a-thon reading this. Russia was a "victim" for invading Poland? And they wanted to create a buffer zone against further "invasions" by the west? Their own invasions? They create a "buffer zone" by occupying a country? Wouldn't that eliminate the buffer zone by merely pushing ones sphere of influence closer to the nations they want distance from?

    The Western Allies weren't best pleased that countries like poland, Czechoslovakia and Hungary were falling into the Russian Sphere of influence and made alliances to ensure that any further thoughts that Russia might have had about expansion were curtailed!!
    Wasn't Russia the biggest aggressor in WWII? And how is being occupied though you did nothing to start the war, having your governments killed off and replaced with communist puppet governments considered "making alliances"?

    Its shameful that the two countries that caused Britain to take a stand against Germany should remain under occupation from a foreign power for a further 40 years, i.e. Poland and Czechoslovakia.
    Poland and Czech. caused Britain to take a stand? Wasn't it Germany and Russia that caused Britain to take a stand?

    I am not trying to bait you Gotthard, but some of this "justification" or "rationalization" of Russia is very strange to my eyes. Surely our ideas of justice and responsibility do not diverge so disparately. That's very discouraging.
     
  7. jimbotosome

    jimbotosome Discharged

    I remember when we used to push back harder. Sigh.
    You are a hardliner.

    Okay, I'm a bit hazy on this area of history as i never covered it at school. The Magna Carta was forced upon King John (I think it was) by the nobles of the land who were a little bit hacked off at the way he was running the country in Richard's absence (please don't quote me on any of this).
    This led to the establishment of the House of lords, and eventually the house of Commons as well as the elected representatives of the common people. The COmmons represented the people, the Lords represented the land as they owned most of it after 1533.
    Monarchists and dictators do not like to surrender power. They have a way of "eliminating" the desire to take away power. That didn't appear here at least to my knowledge. But the act of limiting powers and returning them to the hands of the people (demo) is the definition of democracy and it was a gutsy move.


    Now TB, who you think is a Right on Chap (Jeez) has dissolved hereditory peers in the Lords. Great, you may say, but it ain't. They repesented the land and the interest of everyone who relied on that land. He then filled it whht his cronies through an Honours for Cash scandal which is currently growing out of all proportion, all to get his own way. Good Ol' TB has totally screwed us over.
    As to the Commons being a good show. It is when they get going. PMQ's can be hilarious when the insults start flying. Ever seen Sir Nicholas Winterton MP for Macclesfield when he starts? Goes up like a Jack Russel. Hilarious.
    I now feel this particular lesson completed and closed. Back to topic.
    I guess I just have a soft spot for those that stand up for what is right and become victims of politics and rhetoric. TB is very liberal but I don't hold that against him because he has character (which is rare for them). Like Bush he is a victim of the unscrupulous feeding frenzy of the Socialist media who wish the world was communist because they are too stupid and idealistic to know what that really means. (socialism/communism at the bare minimum means goodbye free press).


    The British have always been entertaining. For a time there I thought all you folks did was develop very dry comedies, MP, Richard Gervis, etc (The Office is one of my all time favs) and create rock-n-roll bands and send them to the States to make a gajillion dollars. Perhaps such things may be the result of a society that is so jaded. It makes for some pretty entertaining debate, though I often do not understand what the actual issue is. Rather watch that than some boring monologue by some dried out blow-hard in the US senate discussing an issue I do understand, in his transparent soliloquy that makes his position look even more stupid than it really is. :goodnight:
     
  8. jimbotosome

    jimbotosome Discharged

    Has the cold war fully ended??
    While The Russian Federation and all the other remaining states reform and decide on their future positions the situation in the Middle east also has a lot of origins in WW2, Has the cold war gone away or is it just morphing into a similar situation but with different polarities? As China gets more and more powerful maybe we in the West will begin to percieve Korea (The War) as the source of the new economic Cold war.
    Excellent point!
     
  9. Herroberst

    Herroberst Senior Member

    Spidge and Jim swingin those bats....excellent responses.



    Ready with ANGLICO when you need it.
     

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  10. Herroberst

    Herroberst Senior Member

    Why did Stalin put so much pressure on the Western allies to start the second front?!
    This is another thread on the Eastern front and how the Russians won WWII single handedly, it's becoming tiresome.
    Not only that but it belittles the losses on the Western front, I find it distasteful.

    Agreed, What about more technical threads or perhaps Battle tactics...Typhoon, Mars, Uranus, Kursk. It would be nice to see more than one source quoted. Their seems to be a Glantz following on this board.:icon_sleepy:
     
  11. morse1001

    morse1001 Very Senior Member

    Agreed, What about more technical threads or perhaps Battle tactics...Typhoon, Mars, Uranus, Kursk. It would be nice to see more than one source quoted. Their seems to be a Glantz following on this board.:icon_sleepy:

    There is a sub-forum on battle specifics and its easy to start a thread, so all you need is the desire to create a thread!:cheers:
     
  12. T-34

    T-34 Discharged - Nazi

    Wasn't Russia the biggest aggressor in WWII? And how is being occupied though you did nothing to start the war, having your governments killed off and replaced with communist puppet governments considered "making alliances"?

    wrong. russia never been an occupant.
    the establishment of friendly regimes in other countries is not an occupation, by no means.
     
  13. spidge

    spidge RAAF RESEARCHER

    wrong. russia never been an occupant.
    the establishment of friendly regimes in other countries is not an occupation, by no means.

    Did the Polish government invite Stalin to take over part of their land and execute a large amount of their top ranking soldiers?
     
  14. Loki

    Loki Member

    Ok I am new here but why are any of you responding to T34? He is obviously intentionally trying to provoke all of you with his nonsense. You chase a rat out of your house or you kill it but you certainly don't try to talk logically to it.
     
  15. spidge

    spidge RAAF RESEARCHER

    Welcome Loki,

    When and if he becomes irrepressible I/we walk away. Whether it is bating or ideology in the long run it is good to know what is actually out there on the net and what other people really do believe.

    Is he a flamer......possibly, or does he really believe the tripe that he is conveying. I know, you know but at times it is interesting to debate an issue and find out.
     
  16. Kitty

    Kitty Very Senior Member

    I'm beginning to wonder if T34 is Stalin back under another name. Should we all ignore him? Nice idea about the rat Loki, not heard that one before.
     
  17. jimbotosome

    jimbotosome Discharged

    wrong. russia never been an occupant.
    the establishment of friendly regimes in other countries is not an occupation, by no means.
    Shouldn't "friendly" be in quotations as I put it here? How do you know if someone is sincere when they "welcome" you after you just got done executing those who didn't "welcome" you, in front of them? I know Saddam Hussein had quite a following and won his "elections" by 100% of the votes. I guess you could say he too was a "friendly" dictator. I don't know what we were thinking.

    the establishment of friendly regimes in other countries is not an occupation, by no means.
    Are you quoting from the official Nazi mantra here? I thought we were talking about Stalin, not Hitler. Sure Hitler was very "friendly" too but his "friendship" only killed 6 million Jews and 4+ million non-Jews. He was no where near as "friendly" as Stalin. Stalin continued to be "friendly" after the war where Hitler's death prevented him from "making" new "friends".

    By the way T34, since you are obviuosly a Communist, living in a country where so many families were killed, enslaved and tortured by Communism for so long, I have a question for you. I just got finished watching a couple of documentaries on the discovery channel of the Soviets. I also have a friend that met a Russian girl and married her. She of course was terrified for months after they got married that the "government police" would come kick in their door and haul off her husband until he managed to convince her she was no longer in the USSR. She was shocked at the large and abundantly stocked stores in the US. She has trouble accepting the serenity and security of western culture. She has to retrain herself as a free person. It's not easy having been a slave all her life to a brutal form of government with heartless animals in charge.

    Aren't you afraid that some of the descendants and victims of this godless and lifeless existence you evangelize so staunchly, might turn out to be physically big men such as myself who did not appreciate your pushing more of the same misery and tear your liver out and hang it on a stick? I mean, its lucky for you I wasn't one of your heroes' victims and hear you prating this hideous garbage that maybe your family benefitted from the misery of others. I would be quite indignant and unless you are about 6'4" and 280+ pounds and somewhat muscular, this type of rhetoric would be terribly unhealthy to spew out in public would it not? What if such a person who got only one loaf of bread and two eggs a month, heard this crap from you being a member of the enslaving and empovershing party who benefitted from the betrayal of your countrymen and got two loaves and four eggs a month to live on just for helpingr betray them? Wouldn't that be dangerous or do you hide behind the hope of starving them for decades has led to leaner less capable male "friends"?

    I have always wondered why the US didn't pump arms to the Soviet people and let the Communist government have a taste of what the USSR did to them to others for all these years and still do in the Middle East to keep dissention going there, after all there never was a nation in the world so determined to sow such discord and misery in the world than the USSR. The US is very capable of giving the Soviet people the arms to erase the mafia, take out the crooked Soviet governments. This was all the citizens in the documentaries talked about. What happens if the people finally rise up against you communist holdouts and hardliners? Won't you be begging for sanctuary in non-communist countries just to stay alive and not have to pay for the sins of the past that you are so greatly due?

    I am just a little curious, after all I am a westerner. I don't understand the slave/oppressor mentality like you do. I don't know what it is like for my fellow citizen to want me dead like you probably know, for pushing a selfish idealogy that might help me live closer to the poverty line than they at their expense and their great misery. Looking over one's shoulder must really suck.
     
  18. Owen

    Owen -- --- -.. MOD

    Why don't we ask T34 WHY he thinks like that?
    Is T34 from Russia?
    Let's see T34's views.
    T34 may come from a different background to us.
    We are losing too many new members.
    WHY?
     
  19. Kitty

    Kitty Very Senior Member

    Why don't we ask T34 WHY he thinks like that?
    Is T34 from Russia?
    Let's see T34's views.
    T34 may come from a different background to us.
    We are losing too many new members.
    WHY?

    Excellent point. T34, could you please explain your views?
     
  20. Gage

    Gage The Battle of Barking Creek MOD

    We are losing too many new members.
    WHY?

    I've been wondering the same thing over the last few days. They post a few times and then disappear.:confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused:
    I don't think I smell!!!!!
     

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