WW2. Remarkable Statistics.

Discussion in 'General' started by von Poop, Feb 2, 2014.

  1. von Poop

    von Poop Adaministrator Admin

    I've been reading Hastings's 'All Hell Let Loose', and as is his wont it's filled with the usual slew of little nuggets and anecdotes.
    In a previous book (Armageddon), he gave out a little number that really stuck in my head:

    963 - The number of Germans of General Rank or above who died as a result of the war.

    This time, he's taken a quite reasonable total of deaths attributable to the war, something we likely all sort of know, and distilled them into one rather chilling figure:

    c.27,000 - The average number of deaths per day.

    I shan't forget that now...
    Roughly, that's:
    c,189,000 per week.
    c.810,000 per month.
    c.9,612,000 per year.

    ...

    More remarkable statistics please, if you have any.

    ~A
     
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  2. Wills

    Wills Very Senior Member

  3. Ron Goldstein

    Ron Goldstein WW2 Veteran WW2 Veteran Patron

    Wikepedia on Bomber Command casualties:

    Bomber Command crews also suffered an extremely high casualty rate: 55,573 killed out of a total of 125,000 aircrew (a 44.4% death rate), a further 8,403 were wounded in action and 9,838 became prisoners of war. This covered all Bomber Command operations including tactical support for ground operations and mining of sea lanes.[clarification needed][25] A Bomber Command crew member had a worse chance of survival than an infantry officer in World War I.[25] By comparison, the US Eighth Air Force, which flew daylight raids over Europe had 350,000 aircrew during the war and suffered 26,000 killed and 23,000 POWs.[25] Of the RAF Bomber Command personnel killed during the war, 72% were British, 18% were Canadian, 7% were Australian and 3% were New Zealanders. [26]
    Taking an example of 100 airmen:[27]
    55 killed on operations or died as result of wounds
    three injured (in varying levels of severity) on operations or active service
    12 taken prisoner of war (some injured)
    two shot down and evaded capture
    27 survived a tour of operations
    In total 364,514 operational sorties were flown, 1,030,500 tons of bombs were dropped and 8,325 aircraft lost in action.

    In loving memory of Sgt.Jack Goldstein, 166 Squadron, killed over Nuremberg on 16/3/45
    (One of the statistics)

    Ron
     
  4. Wills

    Wills Very Senior Member

    http://www.rafinfo.org.uk/BCWW2Losses/

    Bomber Command Losses - amendments and additions only appears to be a free access to the publications on facebook - which I do not use.


    and on the following day a little tragedy was posted on the squadron notice boards. Under the heading "new arrivals" seven names were listed, and directly below, under the heading "missing in action," were the same seven names.
     
  5. dbf

    dbf Moderatrix MOD

    An excerpt from the publication ‘What Britain Has Done 1939-1945‘, issued by The Ministry of Information in 1945

    THE ACHIEVEMENT OF MANPOWER MOBILIZATION

    Perspective

    Great Britain’s population of effective working age (males aged 14-64 and females aged 15-59) is relatively limited. At 30th June, 1944, it totalled 31,930,000. Of this figure 22 million had been mobilized by the same date.
    The remaining 10 million consisted mainly of housewives, billetees, evacuees and invalids, and of students and schoolchildren over fourteen, and invalids (including war invalids).

    British manpower mobilization has accordingly been of the most stringent order. Of all the factors in war production manpower is particularly vital for Britain. It is also the most stable, and Britain has had to make the maximum effective use of her resources of manpower and good organization in order to make good destruction of plant, factories, ports, railways, etc., by enemy action, and offset difficulties in the import of raw materials, shortages, etc. Over and above this, millions of British men and women have been taken out of production for the armed and auxiliary services and for whole-time civil defence. Yet the total volume of production has been increased.


    Performance

    The magnitude of the task which the total mobilization of available manpower involved is shown by the fact that since the beginning of the war those responsible have had to deal with more than 30,000,000 registrations for national service of one kind or another.

    Of the figure of 15,910,000 males aged 14-64, 14,896,000 (or 93.6 per cent) had been mobilized in June 1944.

    Of these, 4½ million were in the services, 225,000 in whole-time Civil Defence, 3,210,000 in the munitions industries, 4,059,000 in other essential work and 2,900,000 in other full-time employment.

    The total of 4½ million serving in the Armed Forces of the United Kingdom, compared with less than half a million at the beginning of the war, had been reached in spite of the casualties of five years of war. Including the number killed, missing, taken prisoner, or released on medical and other grounds, the total number of men who have served or are serving in the Armed Forces of the United Kingdom during this war is over 5½ million.

    These men have been drawn mainly from the younger age groups. 57 per cent of all men between the ages of eighteen and forty have served or are still serving in the Armed Forces. The other men in these age groups have been retained in industry because of special skill, particularly in making munitions, or because they were unfit for service in the Armed Forces.

    Those neither in the Services nor in whole-time Civil Defence, were giving additional service in their spare time - 1¾ million in the Home Guard, 1¼ million in part-time Civil Defence, and most of the remainder were performing forty-eight hours a month Fire Guard duties. These additional duties were obligatory for men who did less than sixty and women who did less than fifty-five hours a week in their employment.

    Of the total of 16,020,000 women aged 14/59, 7,120,000 had been mobilized in June 1944.

    Of these, 467,000 were in the Auxiliary Services, 56,000 in whole-time Civil Defence, 1,851,000 in the munitions industries, 1,644,000 in other essential work and 3,102,000 in other full-time employment. The remainder were mainly housewives.

    Some 900,000 were doing part-time work in industry (but have been included in the figures on the basis of two being equivalent to one whole-time worker) and 350,000 were doing part-time Civil Defence work.

    Many others were doing war work in a variety of ways as members of salvage parties, collectors for Savings Groups, making and distributing hospital supplies, comforts for the Forces, and the Merchant Navy, etc.

    Great Britain in 1941 was the first country to conscript women for the uniformed Auxiliary Services.

    Of women in the 18-40 age groups, 90 per cent of the single women are working and over 80 per cent of the married women and widows without children.

    Of women in the 18-50 age groups, 750,000 married women and widows with children and 2,000,000 without children are in paid employment.
    Of single women in the 55-60 age group, 100,000 are in paid employment, excluding those in private domestic service.

    At least 1,000,000 women of all ages are rendering voluntary service.

    Women have played a magnificent part in freeing men for the forces or heavy industry.

    In 1943, 40 per cent of the employees in the aircraft industry were women as compared with 12 per cent in 1940. In the engineering and allied industries the corresponding figures are 35 per cent in 1943 and 16 per cent in 1940.

    About half of all the workers in the chemical and explosives industry are women.

    In the munitions industries, including shipbuilding and heavy engineering, one worker in every three is a woman.

    In agriculture and horticulture the introduction of 117,000 women has freed nearly 100,000 men; while 160,000 women have replaced 184,000 men in the various transport services.

    Between June 1939 and June 1944 there was a net addition of 1.345,000 women in the munitions industries, 792,000 women in the basic industries and 523,000 women in the Auxiliary Services and whole-time Civil Defence.

    Nearly three in every four British boys and girls between the ages of fourteen and seventeen are doing work in vital industry.

    In order to achieve this mobilization of manpower the British have had to make many sacrifices and changes in the home life so dear to them. 22½ million removals of civilians alone have been recorded.

    8,528,000 men and women workers are covered by Essential Work Orders. These Orders restrain workers in certain scheduled essential industries from leaving their employment and employers from dismissing them, except for serious misconduct, without the permission of a National Service Officer.

    The needs of the Services have been met partly by voluntary recruitment, but mainly by compulsory enlistment of men registered under National Service Acts.

    The compulsory enlistment of women in the Auxiliary Services was introduced in December 1941.

    Compulsory registration for employment was also introduced in 1941.

    Casualties have made severe inroads into the manpower available for the prosecution of the war. The total casualties (Armed Forces, Merchant Seamen and Civilians) sustained by the United Kingdom up to the beginning of May 1945 amounted to close on 1 million.

    Of this total 746,109 were suffered by the Armed Forces (2228,383 killed, 59,476 missing, 274,148 wounded and 184,103 prisoners of war). In spite of these losses the total strength of the Armed Forces increased each year since 1939.

    During the same period 30,589 Merchant Seamen serving in British ships were killed by enemy action at sea and a further 12,993 were missing, wounded or interned by the enemy.

    By the beginning of May 1945, the total of civilian casualties was 146,760. Of these 60,585 had been killed or died of injuries (including 25,392 women and 7,623 children) and 86,175 had been injured and detained in hospital. More than half (80,307) of the total civilian casualties occurred in the London region.
     
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  6. dbf

    dbf Moderatrix MOD

    from ‘What Britain Has Done 1939-1945‘, issued by The Ministry of Information in 1945


    Tanks and Vehicles

    Output of tanks from September 1939 to June 1944 was 25,116, of carrier and armoured cars 74,802 and of wheeled vehicles for the Services 919,111.


    Guns, Ammunition and Other Supplies.
    From September 1939 to June 1944 the following ground munitions were produced:

    Field, medium and heavy artillery equipments 13,512
    Heavy anti-aircraft equipments 6,294
    Light anti-aircraft equipments 15,324
    Machine guns and sub-machine guns 3,729,921
    Rifles 2,001,949
    Gun ammunition 161,100,000 rounds
    20-mm ammunition 387,700,000 rounds
    Small arms ammunition 8,285,000,000 rounds
    Grenades 80,983,000
    Lines of communication cables 3,009,200 miles
    Telephones 486,200
    Wireless stations 445,500
    Reception sets 34,227
     
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  7. CL1

    CL1 116th LAA and 92nd (Loyals) LAA,Royal Artillery Patron

    CWGC Civilians 66,375

    THE ROLL
    The Roll consists of seven leather-bound volumes (the work of the binder Roger Powell) containing printed details of 66,375 fatalities. Entries are not arranged chronologically but by county, and within county by local government areas (many of which have changed since 1945). The lists are then alphabetical by surname and give details of the residential address, place of death and family relationship (e.g., “wife of…”, “son of…”). One volume covers deaths on board ship and deaths abroad (including civilian deaths in prison camps). This volume also has addenda for the whole Roll.
    http://www.westminster-abbey.org/our-history/people/civilian-war-dead-roll-of-honour-1939---1945


    http://www.cwgc.org/find-war-dead.aspx?cpage=1
     
  8. von Poop

    von Poop Adaministrator Admin

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  9. elser

    elser Member

    The one that always stuck in my mind is this - 80% of soviet males born in 1923 died in WWII.
     
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  10. canuck

    canuck Token Colonial Patron

    The Essex Scottish returned to Canada and was disbanded on 15 December 1945 with the dubious record of having the highest number of casualties of any unit in the Canadian Army: 553 killed and roughly 2,000 wounded. The Essex Scottish was awarded 18 battle honours for its involvement in the war. The Dieppe raid was a significant contributor to those losses.

    I read recently where 3 British infantry regiments each suffered in excess of 20,000 casualties during the course of the 1914-1918 war.
     
  11. lionboxer

    lionboxer Member Patron

    Burma Campaign :- for every Allied battle casualty there were a further 120 of disease and sickness.
     
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  12. Peccavi

    Peccavi Senior Member

    Despite being at War for almost 15 years with Chinese Forces and taking 100s of thousands of Chinese Prisoners of War, Japan was able to only find 56 Chinese live prisoners of war to hand back in 1945.
     
  13. Swiper

    Swiper Resident Sospan

    Sadly take Hasting's statistics with gigantic pinches of salt, some of his figures are near pure fabrications, collaborated and in there for shock value....

    However here is one of mine:
    In 6 RWF only one of the officers in the Battalion who landed in Normandy made it to Hamburg, the Medical Officer.
     
  14. von Poop

    von Poop Adaministrator Admin

    The 963 was thrashed out on here a while back & found to make sense.
    The 27k, extrapolated from a broad-brush death total of C.60M over Six years seems fine too.
     
  15. Wills

    Wills Very Senior Member

    Rare (I assume) documents such as Part II Orders probably give the most accurate unit occurrences - a document used by the pay office (and other) which governments around the world are keen to see their armies keep up to date . Here the Part Two Orders 1916/17 (need to scroll on - gaps between some publications) of the 73rd Royal Highlanders of Canada - the promotion to CSM on one line with 20 days Punishment on another for a defaulter with a poor unfortunate fined 5 days and placed under stoppage of pay 50c per diem whilst in hospital with VD - lines of KIA and wounded - the daily routine and life of the soldier - fined one days pay and make good the loss of one cap badge. Losses and reinforcements,

    https://archive.org/stream/73rdInfantryBattalionPartIiOrders/73rdBnPIIDO#page/n0/mode/1up
     
  16. arnhem44

    arnhem44 Member

    Though I knew of this high death rate (albeit all allied bombers and german Uboat crews ; more than or near to 50% death rate).....now that I see the US bomber group being substantially lower

    WHY is that ?

    The daylight vs night time , in itself is not a explanation...

    is it becoz the USAF had -at least- most of the time (and already from 1943 when they got involved) cover from fighters, whereas RAFbombers at night -never- had fighter cover (not even nightfighters with radar?) ?
     
  17. Swiper

    Swiper Resident Sospan

    Good points, however if you flick through to the Reichswald chunk... numbers are sheer fantasy.

    Also it should be obvious to him that they were fantasy, given that the far, far lower figures are widely available and easily checked!

    As a whole I take Hastings as I enjoy fish and chips, with lashings of salt and vinegar.
     
  18. Ron Goldstein

    Ron Goldstein WW2 Veteran WW2 Veteran Patron

    Quite apart from the sobering statistics of deaths in Bomber Command there were the figures that were bandied around at the time about life expectancy of Bomber Crews.

    In January 1945, whilst I was being re-trained as Tank Crew, I was unwise enough to mention to my barrack room mates that my brother had just been posted to his operational unit.

    I remember to this day one of the chaps calling out " I give him three weeks !"

    In actual fact he was to survive about twelve weeks, being shot down on the 16th of March the same year.

    Ron
     
  19. canuck

    canuck Token Colonial Patron

    The Lost Division
    This was the name given to the American soldiers who had deserted in France and in Germany at the end of 1945. They numbered around 19,000, many living on farms and working as labourers, as black market racketeers, or in safe hiding places in their new found girl friends' houses. By 1948, about 9,000 had been found. In 1947, the British Government announced an offer of leniency for British deserters and 837 gave themselves up.
     
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  20. 17thDYRCH

    17thDYRCH Senior Member Patron

    Canada's army, navy and air force, after languishing during the two decades following the Great War, now enjoyed world class status. The Royal Canadian Navy grew from a handful of small ships to 471 vessels, making it the third largest in the world by the end of the war. The RCAF went to war with only thirty seven modern aircraft, but became the fourth largest airforce.

    Not too shabby for a country with a population of eleven million people. Eh?
     
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