WW2 Red Wooden bullets.

Discussion in 'Weapons, Technology & Equipment' started by sapper, Feb 22, 2008.

  1. militarycross

    militarycross Very Senior Member

    I will ask Jack and see if he remembers. Getting more difficult for him all the time. Nominally, it is 7.5mm in diametre which might make it somewhere between a .308 and a .303 I should suppose. I am not up to snuff on ammo, however.

    Good question, Tom. Maybe others have some insight here.

    cheers.
    phil
     
  2. TonyE

    TonyE Senior Member

    You do not say what calibre the cartridges are. Assuming German, then they are Platzpatronen 33 blanks, NOT drill rounds. The colour of PP 33 bullets varies from red to purple. German drill rounds usually had brass bullets formed in one piece with the case.

    As posted elsewhere, these were used for training and the bullet was supposed to shred in the barrel.

    Red wood bulets on .303 British rounds are drill rounds, but these are easily recognisable by the grooves or holes in the case. Round nosed red wood bullets are Mark III drill from WWI and before, whilst pointed red bullets are Drill D mark VIII from WW2.

    Regards
    TonyE
     
  3. TonyE

    TonyE Senior Member

    Phil,

    It looks very long in comparison to normal metal ones. It also looks to be about 0.5" in calibre.

    Any idea which guns would use this size?

    Regards
    Tom

    Assuming that is a metris rule, the bullet is about 30mm long and is a Platzpatronen 33 as described in my previous post.

    Regards
    TonyE
     
  4. macrusk

    macrusk Proud Daughter

    I have one of these red wooden bullets from amongst my father's items - I assume it was from WWII. Shall have a look and see if I can find, and will post a photo. No metal casing with it. Dad was also in Nijmegen, so perhaps was from there. The red colour (at least my memory of it) was similar to a redwood colour.
     
  5. Za Rodinu

    Za Rodinu Hot air manufacturer

    I remember my brother bringing home a couple of rounds with red wood bullets for his Mauser 48k which had gone on as drill and training gun for the Portuguese army until the early 70s. I tinkered with one, never found what wood it was exactly but it was a rather soft variety. It broke up quite easily, I assume it would become powder under the firing stresses.
     
  6. Stig O'Tracy

    Stig O'Tracy Senior Member

    I have a Karl Gustavfstadt Swedish Mauser built for the Swedish armory. The date on my Mauser is 1901. The caliber is 65X55. I had one previously that was made by Huskavarna. Anyway both of these guns have about 1 inch of male thread turned onto the end of the barrel. I've read that this was to accommodate a fitting (which I don't have and have never seen) that could be screwed onto the barrel. This fitting had three "blades" inside it. The fitting was attached during training exercises when wooden bullets were used. When the wooden bullet was fired it would pass through this fitting where the blades would shred it.
     
  7. Theobob

    Theobob Senior Member

    Hi all,
    I had a conversation a while ago with some airborne Varsity Vets.
    One of them mentioned finding some cases of wooden bullits(german)
    One of them fired them so i know they worked(i think in a machine gun)
    Some were different colours and all in a hard wood.The popular theory at the time was that whilst they would`nt be fatal if you were hit,they would have been impregnated with some nasty stuff so as to cause infections.
    Every modern squaddie i have spoken to scoffs and says they were only training rounds,but these guys fired them.
    Anyone heard of such a thing:confused:
    Theobob
     
  8. von Poop

    von Poop Adaministrator Admin

    Hi Theobob,
    I've merged your query into an existing 'wooden bullets' thread which might interest you.

    ~A
     
  9. Theobob

    Theobob Senior Member

    Hi Sapper,
    I`m not so sure they were training rounds.
    Some Canadian Varsity vets told me they fired them at a hut and cheesed off a lot of squaddies inside(in Germany 45)
    I too have puzzled over this and no one seem to have an answer,these guys said that they were told the bullits were impregnated with nasty chemicals to cause infections,so whilst they probably would splinter on impact,they would still penatrate skin.
    Who knows desperate Germans?,running out of metal? one thing they certainly were smart,and maybe a wood like Lignum Vitae would hold up?
    I have just posted on this but its gone missing.
    Theobob
     
  10. Theobob

    Theobob Senior Member

    Ah i found my missing post!
    Sorry i`m a bit slow on the uptake!! DOH
    Theobob
     
  11. von Poop

    von Poop Adaministrator Admin

    I still lean towards the likelihood of them being found in WW2 combat zones primarily for rifle grenades.
    If the Kurz was produced with wooden heads for this purpose (post #21) I can believe that the standard round was too.

    Though sadly I don't have the same decent reference on K98 related stuff as I do on the Sturmgewehr, so can't be completely certain.

    Merged posts

    From the excellent Lone sentry on 7.92 Sprenggranate (my bold):
    Lone Sentry: German Rifle-Grenade Equipment (WWII Tactical and Technical Trends, No. 36, October 21, 1943)
    In the case of the small AP grenade and the antipersonnel grenade, the propelling charge is a standard 7.92-mm steel cartridge case closed at the mouth by crimping. For the large AP grenade the cartridge is provided with a wooden bullet. The grenades are packed singly in cartons with their appropriate cartridges.
    That 'packed' singly, may go against what was found, but who knows with the seemingly chaotic supply situation by that point what changes had been made.
     
    leontrotsky67 likes this.
  12. sapper

    sapper WW2 Veteran WW2 Veteran

    Drew, the Country was Normandy in the area North of Caen. The den was a complete room with a door and all the comforts of home all dug out of the earth bank. A descent size room that you could walk around and stand up in, The red bullets were not made of hard wood. Just ordinary wood.

    They must have been able to fire ..For why would the Germans have kept them in their private den.

    But I have no replies to the German stick grenade, where all the heads were made of serrated concrete. I never came across a metal head stick grenade
    Sapper
     
  13. Resurrecting my previous post in this thread and wondered if anyone has records of the Italians using wooden tipped bullets to guard prisoners as most posts seem to refer to it being a German derived practise for combat.
     
  14. rockape252

    rockape252 Senior Member

    Hi,

    I am amazed at the amount of information which appears on this site, it's excellent.

    My own experience with Wooden Bullets comes from Basic Gunner Training at RAF Catterick in 1966.

    The Training Support Flight (TSF) who acted as enemy on our various exercises would usually be armed with a .303" Bren and they fired "Bulleted Blank" rounds.

    I remember our course instructor showing us a Bren fitted with a special barrel and explaining how the rounds worked.

    Perhaps there was a plentiful supply of Wooden Bulleted Blank around then, hence the use of the Bren Gun instead of the General Purpose Machine Gun (GPMG) which was in service with the RAF Regiment then ?


    Please keep the information coming, this is a fascinating site with some truly very well informed members.


    Regards, Mick D.
     
  15. Za Rodinu

    Za Rodinu Hot air manufacturer

    Hi Sapper,
    I`m not so sure they were training rounds.
    Some Canadian Varsity vets told me they fired them at a hut and cheesed off a lot of squaddies inside(in Germany 45)
    I too have puzzled over this and no one seem to have an answer,these guys said that they were told the bullits were impregnated with nasty chemicals to cause infections,so whilst they probably would splinter on impact,they would still penatrate skin.
    Who knows desperate Germans?,running out of metal? one thing they certainly were smart,and maybe a wood like Lignum Vitae would hold up?
    I have just posted on this but its gone missing.
    Theobob

    Geneva Convention and all that?
     
  16. Wills

    Wills Very Senior Member

    Confession time! 15 year old cadet, we were given handfuls of blanks for an 'exercise' I had got hold of a blue bulleted blank. On the training area was an observation platform with wriggly tin sides and a ladder. From about twenty yards I fired at it with a No 4 rifle if it reached it made no sound! I was nervous about firing it but egged on by my friends. Memories come back - on this ex, my first thunderflash I was holding it wrong as I drew the striker across the brass fitting it ignited and burnt my thumb nail! I threw it as the pain of the burn set in.
     
  17. TonyE

    TonyE Senior Member

    What a lot of misinformation and guesswork in this thread!

    Let me reiterate what I posted ages ago. If they are 7.92x57mm German rounds with a red wood bullet then they are Platzpatrone 33 training blanks.

    German grenade blanks with wooden bullets (Triebpatrone) had much shorter projectiles and whether for the large AP grenade or the signal grenade had different coloured bullets. Some were plain, some yellow and some blue/green but not red to avoid confusion with the ordinary blank. 7.92x33 Kurz grenade blanks (although very rare) were similar in colour.

    As MikB and beerhunter have already said, in British service red wooden bullets are drill rounds.

    Regards
    TonyE
     
  18. sapper

    sapper WW2 Veteran WW2 Veteran

    This place where the Germans had dug out a room on a large bank of earth was a "Den" where they obviously got away from the grind of military duties..When we found it, it had branches over the entrance. It was the sort of thing young men or boys would make. Why in heavens name should they have a wooden box full of red tipped wooden bullets in their den.... It was a Den not an army HQ or anything like it.
    Sapper
     
  19. Theobob

    Theobob Senior Member

    My 5 eggs worth again!
    I freely admit,what i know about guns would fit on the back of a postage stamp.
    But...
    Why would the old fellas make up such a story about firing them off?
    they all laughed heartily,when remembering how the splintered into a wooden hut,and the shouting and bawling that started from the guys inside!!
    Like i said before,Germany was producing some weird stuff at the end of the war?
     
  20. spotter

    spotter Senior Member

    Attached images are of a WW2 german wooden bulleted blank, i no longer have this in my collection so cannot show the headstamp,
    P1120782.JPG
    P1120781.JPG
     

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