I wonder if someone could help me with a question on WW2 medals? My father-in-law is 92 years old and is a veteran of 5 Div in WW2. He mobilised with the Div in Belfast, travelled to India and then back through the Middle East, North Africa, Sicily, Italy and Germany. I want to have his medals (and a picture) framed by a local framing company who I have seen do a great job, as I know that this would mean a lot to him, not least as he is in hospital with a broken hip having fallen over the day before we were due to make a trip to Normandy - so he needs a bit of cheering up. My problem is that, having retrieved his medals from his grandson, I appear to have a mixture of medals that appear to be from the young man's other grandfather too. It's easy enough to work out some of the ones that are clearly not my father-in-law's as they are from 1914-18, but there are others (duplicates I think) and some have had the ribbons detached. I think, with a copy of his records I got for him from the MOD, I can take a fairly good stab at which medals are his, but I really don't want to get this wrong as, once framed, it won't be easy to change and I don't want to disappoint him. So, I've taken some pictures and attached in a .pdf. The PDF includes an excerpt from his army records which states that he was awarded 2 stars/clasps and 2 medals (Italy Star, France & Germany Star, War Medal and Defence Medal). He was also mentioned in dispatches. I have also taken a picture of the mix of medals. I assume that the two stars are his - they are the right ones - but it looks like there are duplicates of two medals. From other research, it looks like one of these (War Medal) has the wrong ribbon on it. In summary, I have three questions: 1. Am I right in my assumptions that what I have are duplicate medals (Defence & War Medals)? 2. Would his Mentioned in Dispatches oak leaf go on any of these medal ribbons? 3. Where would I get ribbons for the Italy, France & Germany stars? I don't know if the framing shop would have these. I realise that these may be very simple questions, to which I think I have worked out some of the answers, but as I want this to be a gift that will lift his spirits, I really don't want to get it wrong. I would be really grateful for any advice any member of this group could offer. Many thanks in anticipation.
Sailor77 Start here:British Gallantry, Orders, and Campaign ribbons. The author of the site, Peter Ghiringhelli, is a member of the forum and just by chance there is a picture showing the complete rack of medals that you have quoted. Then look at this :http://www.ww2talk.com/forum/barracks/17871-court-mounted-medals-medal-related-show-tell.html Good luck with your project ! Ron
Sailor77, you can get replacement medal ribbons from many shops but as we don't know whereabouts you are try this link to e-bay: world war 2 ribbons | eBay I would suggest putting the complete rack together then take a photo of it and post it here for confirmation before getting them finally mounted. Good luck.
Dear Ron, Thank you for your kind advice which I have already looked at. It's rather spooky, but by complete coincidence when looking for information on cleaning medals (through Google), I ended up reading a post you did some time ago in which you posted a picture of you taken at your AJEX parade. You looked, and should be, very proud sir. And yes, the medals looked fab. Thanks again. Ian Sailor77 Start here:British Gallantry, Orders, and Campaign ribbons. The author of the site, Peter Ghiringhelli, is a member of the forum and just by chance there is a picture showing the complete rack of medals that you have quoted. Then look at this :http://www.ww2talk.com/forum/barracks/17871-court-mounted-medals-medal-related-show-tell.html Good luck with your project ! Ron
Whats his name? I'll check if his MiD citation still exists. His name - Corporal William Marsden. 5 Div, Ordnance Field Park. I did get his citation by buying a download from the National Archives a few years ago - WO 373/91 PL1. He was delighted when we managed to get this - the best £3.50 I've ever spent, given the pleasure I know it gave him. Thank you for your kind offer to check all the same. Much appreciated. Ian
What I find amazing is that there is no mention of the 1939-45 star. To have 2 campaign stars & no 39-45 is almost an impossibility. May I sugest that you contact the MODMO to have the entittlement confirmed & if confirmed that no 39-45 star has been issued , you can apply for it. ATB Simon
What I find amazing is that there is no mention of the 1939-45 star. To have 2 campaign stars & no 39-45 is almost an impossibility. May I sugest that you contact the MODMO to have the entittlement confirmed & if confirmed that no 39-45 star has been issued , you can apply for it. ATB Simon Thank you Simon. I have just looked up that medal and I can see why you think he should have it. It's not on his records and he apparently believes he only had 4 medals. I've also just re-checked the medals and there isn't a 1939-45 star there. He spent a long time abroad and, as you say, has two campaign ones. I will get in touch with the MOD medal office. If it is missing, and his records suggest he doesn't have one, I hope they are able to get one quickly. At 92, every week is a bonus and I really want to get this sorted out as soon as possible. Thank you again for your observation. I'll get right on it. Ian
What I find amazing is that there is no mention of the 1939-45 star. To have 2 campaign stars & no 39-45 is almost an impossibility. That is not the case. Qualification for the campaign stars and medals, as well as location, is time dependent. For the Army the qualifying period for the 1939-45 Star was six months' in an operational command which did not include the United Kingdom. Whereas for the Africa Star, Italy Star and France and Germany Star the qualifying period was 24 hours.
For the Army the qualifying period for the 1939-45 Star was six months' in an operational command which did not include the United Kingdom. I've just looked more fully at this and, on the face of it, it would seem that he would indeed qualify for the 1939-45 Star. The criteria for the award runs to several pages, but there are certain specified exemptions to the qualifying time period of six months (more specifically 180 days). This is the relevant bit: those who had ... won an honour, decoration, or mention in dispatches ... were eligible for the 1939-45 Star irrespective of the six months' qualifying period.
I've just looked more fully at this and, on the face of it, it would seem that he would indeed qualify for the 1939-45 Star. The criteria for the award runs to several pages, but there are certain specified exemptions to the qualifying time period of six months (more specifically 180 days). This is the relevant bit: those who had ... won an honour, decoration, or mention in dispatches ... were eligible for the 1939-45 Star irrespective of the six months' qualifying period. Peter, Thanks so much for looking further. As he was MID and did spend a long time with 5 Div, heading to India from the UK, then the Middle East, N Africa, Sicily, Italy, Germany, I am sure that he would easily have hit the 180 day qualifying period as well as the MID one. As he is 92 and I don't know how long MOD will take to deal with this (complicated by the fact that he is currently in hospital with a broken hip), I feel confident enough to buy a medal in the interim. I want to have them all mounted in a frame with a picture of him in uniform and name plaque etc. Given that I know that he would love this and it would lift his spirits, I'm prepared to do this ahead of getting the MOD Medal Office application processed. When I get the other medal from MOD, he will have that also. I assume there must be an order of mounting, but also assume the framers will know what it is for these 5 medals - 1939-45 star, Italy Star, France & Germany Star, War Medal, Defence Medal. Also don't know where the MID oak leaf would go, but presume they would. Thanks again for your help and for all those who helped answer my question. Ian
Hi Ian, To help you along, the Defence Medal goes before the War Medal & after the F&G Star. The emblem for the MID is always worn on the War Medal facing up. ATB Simon
I assume there must be an order of mounting, but also assume the framers will know what it is for these 5 medals - 1939-45 star, Italy Star, France & Germany Star, War Medal, Defence Medal. Also don't know where the MID oak leaf would go, but presume they would. Thanks again for your help and for all those who helped answer my question. Ian, if you look at my medal ribbons' site below. All entries are listed in order of precedence. The WW2 single oak leaf Mentioned in Dispatches Emblem is worn on the War Medal 1939-1945 ribbon. In the absence of the War Medal, the Emblem is worn directly on the coat to the right of any other ribbons. Peter
