The nearly forgotten Nazi aircraft, the Horten 2-29 has been recreated by top stealth-plane experts. This retro-futuristic fighter plane is recreated as part of a documentary last year to uncover the secrets of the technological advancement of the Nazi forces. Nazi engineers came very close to unleash this radar resistant plane and had it been mass produced, it would have changed the course of the war. The experts have recreated this plane with the sole motive of uncovering these clues and the [COLOR=#0066cc! important][COLOR=#0066cc! important]technology[/COLOR][/COLOR] used in it. The team from Northrop Grumman defense-contracting corporation used original Nazi [COLOR=#0066cc! important][COLOR=#0066cc! important]blueprints[/COLOR][/COLOR] and the only surviving Ho 2-29, which has been stored in a U.S. government facility for more than 50 years. http://vsmedia.co.in/ads/www/delivery/lg.php?bannerid=7&campaignid=5&zoneid=7&loc=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.newlaunches.com%2Farchives%2Fthe_retro_horten_229_stealth_fighter_recreated.php&referer=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com%2Fsearch%3Fhl%3Den%26ei%3D5RpKSqK5JsWktwel58iMCg%26sa%3DX%26oi%3Dspell%26resnum%3D0%26ct%3Dresult%26cd%3D1%26q%3DHorten+2-29+bomber%26spell%3D1&cb=d79189de69
Franek; with all due respect: Nazi aircraft, Nazi forces, Nazi engineers, Nazi blueprints... ? Whilst I fully agree that German was under control of the Nazi party in the years from 1933 to 1945 I cannot agree to replace the word "German" against the word "Nazi". To do this replacement during the wartime is accepted and justified - it was done for propaganda reasons to encourage the people for the fight against Germany and its allied nations. But we have just reached the middle of 2009... Then; those 'science fiction' planes would definitely not have changed the course of the war. Germany had hardly any more fuel, had hardly any more materials and even worse had hardly any more trained pilots. Even if they would have had such a plane OPERATIONAL... nothing would have changed at all! Take for example the jetfighter He.162: Most losses came due to a too weak landing gear and due to the fact that the glue they had available was sensitive against humidity: The wings just disasembled ;-)
Franek, Two Luftwaffen Brothers by the name Horten designed and built gliders of the flying wing variety. They perfected this nice aircraft near Oranienburg, north of Berlin, where it was first test flown. Tubular steel construction with wood covering. A very low radar picture, but not stealth. I believe it to be part of the history of the development of a stealth plane. There are some good websites showing the plane and I possess a Dörfler book on the subject. The Americans were also developing the flying wing at the same time although they never realised due to the secrecy of the projects. Luftwaffe Resource Group - Horten Ho 229 Horten Ho 229 Both Horten Brothers Regards Tom
I'm going with Kuno, no need to overemphasise the "nazi" part. The Horten Brothers work is well known, no need for all this hoopla. The Ho229 remains have been stored in the Smithsonian Institution since ever, so no secret there. Interesting site: Nurflugel , with work by The Hortens, Lippisch, Northrop, eetc. And guess what was really superlative other than this Kraut sheet:
The first photograph shows the plane at Oranienburg undergoing testing. The second shows some of the tubular steel construction. Regards Tom
Not convinced the Germans where trying to develop specifically develop a stealth aircraft, the main advantages of the flying wing configuration is low drag. Kev
The word NAZI was not mine.. I merely high lighted a description from the internet. This was all new to me. But regardless of politics one has to give the Germans credit.
Of course, nothing can beat the: YouTube - Indiana Jones airplane fight It does bear striking resemblance to the proposed Arado Ar E.555 series, minus the 6 jet engines RegardsTom
The word NAZI was not mine.. I merely high lighted a description from the internet. This was all new to me. But regardless of politics one has to give the Germans credit. Definetly. One of those things that sounds great on paper, as said the big advantage is low form drag but never seems to work out well in real life. Always seems to suffer from poor stability and bad flying manners due to the lack of tail or vertical surfaces. I guess this is less of a problem for the B2 with its computer controlled active stability. Its very interesting, seems to come around again every so many years.. Kev
Definetly. One of those things that sounds great on paper, as said the big advantage is low form drag but never seems to work out well in real life. Always seems to suffer from poor stability and bad flying manners due to the lack of tail or vertical surfaces. I guess this is less of a problem for the B2 with its computer controlled active stability. Its very interesting, seems to come around again every so many years.. Kev Kev, Interesting regarding the stability problems. I was at an airshow at Willow Grove Naval Air Base a few years ago and spoke to a pilot of the stealth fighter which was roped off and had armed guards iside the perimiter! He said that the plane could still fly ok with one of the 4 nose probe sensors destroyed. He added, Two or more damaged and he would automatically eject as the plane was so unstable without working computer sensors. It would be interesting to hear from an expert on the Avro Vulcan. Can it be classed as a flying wing? if yes was it stable to fly as it always looked great whenever I saw them flying. I know that they flew low as once I was on a driving course travelling along the A66 when two passed overhead, very, very, low and frightened me to death. Regards Tom
Tom, actually the Raiders of the Lost Ark machine was designed around one of the Northrop projects, nothing to do with those pretty but completely spoofy Luft.46 wet dreams. Kev, in fact the Horten flying wing concept is very effective and stable in aerodynamical terms. One of the beauties of the thing is the actual no need for a vertical tail whatsoever or computerised controls at a time when there were no computers at all. Aerodinamically it is that sophisticated. Read the Nürflugel link i provided. And the B-2 shows Northrop heritage in design terms too Tom, the Vulcan IS a flying wing per definition. It's wing section is of the self-stable type as well. As in everything, it's all a matter of design compromises... You get more stability you pay a drag penalty, the beauty of the "new" computerised constantly controlled stability is that you can use less draggy wing sections. The F-117 has the aerodynamical qualities of a brick, there were some lively meetings between the aerodynamics engineers and the stealthy people, I understand they did come to blows.
Kev, Interesting regarding the stability problems. I was at an airshow at Willow Grove Naval Air Base a few years ago and spoke to a pilot of the stealth fighter which was roped off and had armed guards iside the perimiter! He said that the plane could still fly ok with one of the 4 nose probe sensors destroyed. He added, Two or more damaged and he would automatically eject as the plane was so unstable without working computer sensors. It would be interesting to hear from an expert on the Avro Vulcan. Can it be classed as a flying wing? if yes was it stable to fly as it always looked great whenever I saw them flying. I know that they flew low as once I was on a driving course travelling along the A66 when two passed overhead, very, very, low and frightened me to death. Regards Tom Tom, The vulcan is technically a delta wing (it has a regular fuselage) and it has a quite large vertical stabiliser. Not really read anything about the development of the aircraft, but once had a good chat with a pilot who quite liked the old bus. Proclaiming its flight handling was excelent especially performance at altitude. Favourite trick when being chased by fighters was to climb away and once the the fighter was getting into an attack poistion he would do a sharp turn, which the fighters couldnt do without losing lots of height. Kev
Just a point about Germany and Nazism. In the 12 years that the Nazis were in power they controlled the individual lives of the Germans citizens who in the majority of cases had been successfully indoctrinated with Nazi propaganda and mythical aryan culture.Industry and commerce were responsible for the upkeep of the fledgling regime and willingly gave donations to to the emerging Nazi Party.They in turn, beneffited from the regime's gift of forced labour, transported from every Nazi subjugated country.Overall, the whole country was harnessed to enslave the continent of Europe in the guise that perceived wrongs of the Versailles Treaty were being put right. For those who suffered there were those who made money from keeping the Nazi war machine turning and research into the varous post war trials postwar of the German captains of industry will reveal their culpability.Do not stop there,have a look at the work of German doctors who as Nazis took part in illegal enforced medical experiments on the "untermenchen". As a friend of mine said when he was posted to Germany in the summer of 1945,I expected to find Nazis but found that nobody would admit to being Nazis. The people who drove the organisation from day to day from the war office,on the battlefield,in the factory,at the concentration camp were heavily involved in the Nazi culture and its ideology.Of course there were exceptions but these were very few. The Nazis wished to be portrayed as the true Germans by claiming a direct line from Luther via Frederick 11 and Bismarck to the Third Reich.After all the Nazi Party were referred to as National Socialists,an abbreviated form of their real name of the NSD (Deutsche)AP,founded by Hitler from the DAP IN 1920.
Tom, The vulcan is technically a delta wing (it has a regular fuselage) and it has a quite large vertical stabiliser. Not really read anything about the development of the aircraft, but once had a good chat with a pilot who quite liked the old bus. Proclaiming its flight handling was excelent especially performance at altitude. Favourite trick when being chased by fighters was to climb away and once the the fighter was getting into an attack poistion he would do a sharp turn, which the fighters couldnt do without losing lots of height Does it have a stabilizer, conventional or canard? No. So it is a Flying Wing. In German a Nürflugel, "only wing" Your story is correct, the same thing was told of the humongous (I love this word!) B-36. What happened was that with that wing area the wing load (roughly weight / sq.ft.) was so low that they kept their manoeuvrability at high altitude, while the highly loaded fighters had to fly straight or lose lots of lift and fall off the sky, litterally. The Vulcan was a Flying Wing, so was the Concorde, Mirage, F-106, etc. You get my drift
I like this thread Some intersting posts to read. As looks go the Ho 229 certainly takes some beating, especially when you consider when it was designed and built. Regards Tom
The word NAZI was not mine.. I merely high lighted a description from the internet. This was all new to me. But regardless of politics one has to give the Germans credit. That is why it always pays to cite your source when you "cut & paste" articles from the internet. Of course I mean that with all due respect to your status and gentrification.
Kev, Interesting regarding the stability problems. I was at an airshow at Willow Grove Naval Air Base a few years ago and spoke to a pilot of the stealth fighter which was roped off and had armed guards iside the perimiter! He said that the plane could still fly ok with one of the 4 nose probe sensors destroyed. He added, Two or more damaged and he would automatically eject as the plane was so unstable without working computer sensors. It would be interesting to hear from an expert on the Avro Vulcan. Can it be classed as a flying wing? if yes was it stable to fly as it always looked great whenever I saw them flying. I know that they flew low as once I was on a driving course travelling along the A66 when two passed overhead, very, very, low and frightened me to death. Regards Tom I think the F117 is particualry unstable due to the design comprimises for the stealth, its certinally no dog fighter, but then its not supposed to be, The idea it to avoid being noticed. I think its a fantastic aircraft and partuicualry suited to modern warfare, an aircraft that can sneak in and remove point targets with the min fuss, like an airbourne SAS squad. No idea on flexability regarding ordinance. By interesting to see how it pans out vs the new generation of aircraft like the F35, I guess it depends on how good they are. I wouldnt be surprised in the F117 stays on the books for a long time. Kev
I think the F117 is particualry unstable due to the design comprimises for the stealth, its certinally no dog fighter, but then its not supposed to be, The idea it to avoid being noticed. I think it's a fantastic aircraft and partuicualry suited to modern warfare, an aircraft that can sneak in and remove point targets with the min fuss, like an airbourne SAS squad. No idea on flexability regarding ordinance. By interesting to see how it pans out vs the new generation of aircraft like the F35, I guess it depends on how good they are. I wouldnt be surprised in the F117 stays on the books for a long time. Kev Psst: was and could! The F-117 was struck down a year ago as it was found to not be totally suitable already. And it certainly was no dogfighter as you say, it's mission was to drop bombs, hence a Bomber. The F- designation was a PR ploy only.
Color me impressed! I'm not big into the air force part of WWII but I know where to appreciated good design when I see it. :p Nazi Stealth Jet Could Have Won War for Hitler - Science News | Science & Technology | Technology News - FOXNews.com Leave it to Fox news for the headlines.
