WW1 British Army Service Numbers 271167 / 217617

Discussion in 'Prewar' started by archivist, Feb 26, 2017.

  1. archivist

    archivist Well-Known Member

    Can anyone please tell me how I can check where and when a British Army service number was issued. The number in question is in some doubt I had his number as 271167 but the Commonwealth War Graves Commission has it as 217617 on the final burial report- as you can see the numbers are all the same but in a different order. The man was Sgt Charles Queen and he was killed just two weeks before the end of the First World War. He was recruited at Annfield Plain in Co Durham but, at the time of his death, he was serving with the Worcester Yeomanry which seems a bit odd.
     
  2. Tony56

    Tony56 Member Patron

    4jonboy, Tricky Dicky and Smudger Jnr like this.
  3. archivist

    archivist Well-Known Member

    Thank you Tony56,

    That is the first positive information I have had on this young man who was only 28 at the time of his death. I can only think he was transferred to replace soldiers who had been killed as he had no connection with Worcestershire; he was born in Northumberland and was a publican in Durham before he joined up. His wife was also from Co Durham
     
  4. Tricky Dicky

    Tricky Dicky Don'tre member

    Charles Queen in the UK, Soldiers Died in the Great War, 1914-1919
    Name: Charles Queen
    Birth Place: Stanley
    Residence: Choppington
    Death Date: 28 Oct 1918
    Death Place: Egypt
    Enlistment Place: Annfield Plain
    Rank: Trumpeter
    Regiment: Household Cavalry and Cavalry of the Line
    Battalion: Worcester Yeomanry. (The Queens Own Worcestershire Hussars.)
    Regimental Number: 271167
    Type of Casualty: Died
    Theatre of War: Egyptian Theatre

    Charles Queen in the UK, Army Registers of Soldiers' Effects, 1901-1929
    Name: Charles Queen
    Gender: Male
    Death Date: 28 Oct 1918
    Death Place: Egypt
    Rank: Sptr
    Regiment: Mtd Fus 1/1 Worc Yes
    Regimental Number: 271167

    Part 2
    Name: Charles Queen
    Gender: Male
    Death Date: 28 Oct 1918
    Death Place: EEF Egypt
    Rank: Tptr
    Regiment: North Hussars
    Regimental Number: 271167
     

    Attached Files:

  5. Tricky Dicky

    Tricky Dicky Don'tre member

    His CWGC data seems to have the correct number:
    QUEEN, C
    Rank:Trumpeter
    Service No:271167
    Date of Death:28/10/1918
    Regiment/Service:Queen's Own Worcestershire Hussars (Worcester Yeomanry) 1st/1st
    Grave Reference: B. 94. Cemetery: DAMASCUS COMMONWEALTH WAR CEMETERY

    It seems as you say the only time the number is wrong is on the Graves Registration Document.

    TD

    Casualty Details
     
  6. Tullybrone

    Tullybrone Senior Member

    Hi,

    You may wish to post on Great War Forum (GWF) as members there may be able to give you much more information.

    Great War Forum World War 1 Forum 1st World War Forum World War One Forum 1914-1918

    Some members have an interest in specific regiments or UK towns. One member there can interpret the information on his soldiers effects record and usually provide an approximate (month & year) date of enlistment.

    Good Luck

    Steve Y
     
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  7. Tricky Dicky

    Tricky Dicky Don'tre member

    Silly me - forgot to add the medal index as shown by Tony56

    Charles Queen in the British Army WWI Medal Rolls Index Cards, 1914-1920
    Name: Charles Queen
    Regiment or Corps: Northumberland Yeomanry, Corps of Hussars
    Regimental Number: 271167, 271167
    30850_A001275-01359.jpg

    TD
     
  8. Pat Atkins

    Pat Atkins Patron Patron

    Steve's right, GWF is the place to glean whatever details are available.

    I did notice one thing which is a little anomalous. The handwritten entry in Soldiers' Effects seems to say Northumberland Fusiliers as the regiment he enlisted into and from which he was posted to the Worcestershire Yeomanry. I think the entry says Nthd Fus which is then poorly transcribed by Ancestry as Mtd Fus as per Tricky Dicky's comprehensive summary above. Perhaps just a slip of the pen for Northumberland Hussars/Yeomanry, however. Can't see anything else which suggests the Northumberland Fusiliers. Am attaching a pic of the entry anyway.

    Cheers, Pat.
     

    Attached Files:

  9. Tricky Dicky

    Tricky Dicky Don'tre member

    It could also be that Mtd should read Attd (Attached) - its one of the problems with Mormons below 30 years old based in USA transcribing Military records from UK and hving no idea at all what they are doing. Its how Ancestry works - the subcribers (like myself) go through their rough input and clear up all the mistakes whilst we pay for it - not a bad business plan

    TD
     
  10. Pat Atkins

    Pat Atkins Patron Patron

    Actually, now you say it, Attached looks more like it. Either way I guess it's not moving this along much, though. I couldn't agree more about the transcription on Ancestry, it's taken me years to find a relative because I didn't know that to the transcriber KOYLI apparently meant the same as KOSB... not something my Scots relative would have agreed with...

    Cheers, Pat
     
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  11. archivist

    archivist Well-Known Member

    Thanks TD,

    As you know, I am more familiar with WW2 RAF research! Do you have any idea what EEF Egypt means under Death Place? Also, if he died in Egypt why would they take his body all the way to Syria for burial?
     
  12. archivist

    archivist Well-Known Member

    In answer to previous comments, he was definitely recruited into the Northumberland Yeomanry and posted to the Worcester Yeomanry - date and reason unknown.

    Unless he was given a choice, it is odd that he did not enlist in the Durham Light Infantry - or perhaps it was because he was born in Northumberland. The detail is also wrong in that they got it the wrong way round - He was born in Choppington and his residence was Stanley.

    Finally, thanks to everyone who responded. I am out of my depth with WW1 Army research; WW2 Air Force is my normal area so I am especially appreciative of all the help I have had
     
  13. RCG

    RCG Senior Member, Deceased

    The Egyptian Expeditionary Force (EEF) was a British Empire military formation, formed on 10 March 1916 under the command of General Archibald Murray.
     
  14. archivist

    archivist Well-Known Member

    Thank you RCG,

    I could have made a wild guess at that - but that's all it would have been - a guess. So I appreciate confirmation from someone who actually knows!
     

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