Winter 1944-45

Discussion in 'General' started by Gage, Aug 1, 2008.

  1. Gage

    Gage The Battle of Barking Creek

    In a lot of books i've read over the years, it's been mentioned how bad the Winter of 1944-45 was.
    But how bad was it compared to other years? Does anybody know?
    Was it worse on the Eastern Front?
    Was it a major factor in the Battle of the Bulge? Was it the reason that it stayed so foggy/misty so Allied air forces couldn't fly?
    Are the winters in Europe as bad now?
    Thanx, Gage.
     
    Gerard likes this.
  2. Ron Goldstein

    Ron Goldstein WW2 Veteran WW2 Veteran

    Hi Gage

    The cold winters in Italy got a mention from me in the BBC WW2 Archives, see:
    BBC - WW2 People's War - Ice cold…. But NOT in Alex !

    After you've read the small piece, scroll down and see the comment that Peter G made (Peter Ghiringhelli, apart from being a personal friend, is our expert on anything and everything Italian).

    Whenever I want to be reminded of those chilly times I find one of the webcams that are readilly available in the Central Italy area. I see the snow and mentally start digging :)

    Brrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr !

    Ron
     
  3. Gerard

    Gerard Seelow/Prora

    Gage,

    As regards the Eastern Front I think 1941 was the coldest and that coupled with the fact that the Germans didnt provide any winter clothes made for a very uncomfortable few months for the Wehrmacht.
     
  4. Owen

    Owen -- --- -.. MOD

    chipm likes this.
  5. dbf

    dbf Moderatrix MOD

    In a lot of books i've read over the years, it's been mentioned how bad the Winter of 1944-45 was.
    But how bad was it compared to other years? Does anybody know?
    Thanx, Gage.

    Gage,
    This is now bugging me :p ... have been googling all sorts of combinations. Seemingly data appears to be in journals only. :rolleyes:

    However, I did find this site for Debrecen, Hungary which kindly provides graphs for max./mean temps., snowy days, frosty days etc. etc.
    [I like graphs!]
    CLIMATE DATA SERIES / DEBRECEN
    Closest I could get to a comparative site for the 1940s especially.
    D
     
  6. Philip Reinders

    Philip Reinders Very Senior Member

    Winters over here in Holland nowadays are nothing very little of not snow and no freezing, whilst in 1944/1945 I know from my Mom and Dad, were terrible, even in 1963 when I was born where bitterly cold, but the last let say 10 years or nothing like that
     
  7. 51highland

    51highland Very Senior Member

    All the veterans that I have spoken to, who took part in the "Bulge" ops say; " You wouldn't know what cold was until you experienced it in the Bulge". The tanks and other tracked vehicles were fitted with special "shoes" to stop them slipping. The likes of Ron etc can probably explain what the "shoes" were.
     
  8. dbf

    dbf Moderatrix MOD

    Just noticed I didn't actually put in that link, sorry; now edited.

    Here's one graph for the annual min. temperature.
    CLIMATE DATA SERIES / BUDAPEST
     
  9. Ron Goldstein

    Ron Goldstein WW2 Veteran WW2 Veteran

    51Highland

    The likes of Ron etc can probably explain what the "shoes" were.


    I didn't join the 4th Hussars until March '45 when the weather had improved so I had no experience of having to fix any "special" tracks or "shoes" although I'm sure that others might be able to help in this department.

    While still on the subject of "freezing", I have written elsewhere about how cold it was in Trieste during the winters of '45 & '46 . I am not exaggerating when I say that if you took a hot mug of tea from the mess hall back to the sleeping quarters ( a distance of 300 yards) the tea literally had ice on the top of the mug before one entered the billets.

    That's cold !!!!
     
  10. Tom Canning

    Tom Canning WW2 Veteran WW2 Veteran

    Highland -
    all American Tanks - Shermans et all had a rubber inlays on their track - which gave little tration on ice - so steel shoes had to be fitted - wheras all British Tank had steel track - so no problems !

    Gage - when Ron was suffering in Italy in 44/'45 winter - I was happily esconced in Hospital in Sunny and Warm Catania in Sicily awaiting surgery - i cought up with both Ron adn Frank in digging out trains near Kirby Stephen in Northern Durham in '47 - that was a really cold one !
    Cheers
     
  11. dbf

    dbf Moderatrix MOD

    Hi,
    I was told that Germany - NRW - suffered very heavy snowfall in March 47. My aunt was getting confirmed and people from the neighbourhood all came out to shovel paths for her and the other children to get to church. Their own church had been bomb damaged so it was quite a trek to the next one.

    My aunt's Godmother was on a train journey from further south - it was stopped due to snow drifts. She and her husband walked the remaining 25 miles or so to complete their journey...both with rucksacks full of potatoes!

    In my aunt's opinion, no winter has ever been as bad since.
    d
     
  12. 51highland

    51highland Very Senior Member

    My Father also said that the Bulge was the coldest weather he had ever experienced although he also said that the deep snow prevented some of the artillery shells that were lobbed at them from detonating, thus saving a few injuries. Everything has an upside maybe.
     
  13. Gage

    Gage The Battle of Barking Creek

    Hi Gage

    The cold winters in Italy got a mention from me in the BBC WW2 Archives, see:
    BBC - WW2 People's War - Ice cold…. But NOT in Alex !

    After you've read the small piece, scroll down and see the comment that Peter G made (Peter Ghiringhelli, apart from being a personal friend, is our expert on anything and everything Italian).

    Whenever I want to be reminded of those chilly times I find one of the webcams that are readilly available in the Central Italy area. I see the snow and mentally start digging :)

    Brrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr !

    Ron

    Many thanks Ron.
    Now that is cold, heard of airmen getting fingers stuck to metal thousands of feet up but never people on the ground!! I confess to never thinking of Italy. The youth of today wouldn't stand a chance!
     
  14. Gage

    Gage The Battle of Barking Creek

    Thanks everybody.
    More stories would be appreciated.
    I remember reading about the death marches across Germany and I think that's why 44/45 sticks out in my mind.
    I know that for me now here in Lincolnshire we never get the winters like we used to.
     
  15. Tom Canning

    Tom Canning WW2 Veteran WW2 Veteran

    Gage -
    One of the favouites tricks by "meanie" children here in Canada is to challenge the more innocent of the group to grasp with the bare hand - or lick any metal object they can find which results in them being stuck to the metal - until released by an adult with much pain to the victim.....as a conseqence many lectures are delivered to the younger element with very little effect on our youngest who promptly went out and 'licked' the rotary dryer on the back lawn - just to test the theory ! He learned !
    ... and by the way - don't feel bad about not thinking about Italy - we knew that from way back ....
    Cheers
     
  16. dbf

    dbf Moderatrix MOD

    More stories would be appreciated.
    I remember reading about the death marches across Germany and I think that's why 44/45 sticks out in my mind.


    Hi Gage, I came across this quote in relation to POWs:

    http://www.freewebs.com/lamsdorf/history.htm

    "January and February 1945 were among the coldest winter months of the twentieth century, with blizzards and temperatures as low as –25 °C (–13 °F), even until the middle of March temperatures were well below 0 °F (–18 °C). "
     
  17. Gage

    Gage The Battle of Barking Creek

    Hi Gage, I came across this quote in relation to POWs:

    http://www.freewebs.com/lamsdorf/history.htm

    "January and February 1945 were among the coldest winter months of the twentieth century, with blizzards and temperatures as low as –25 °C (–13 °F), even until the middle of March temperatures were well below 0 °F (–18 °C). "
    [/quote]

    Thanks D. How did anybody survive?! What a long winter.
     
  18. dbf

    dbf Moderatrix MOD

    Hi,
    I've read some truly appalling stories from all sides.

    But the one that sticks in my mind most, is of refugees fleeing from Russians, freezing to death en route. Women with babies in their arms, checking them, only to find their child dead from the intense cold ...

    d
     
  19. Ron Goldstein

    Ron Goldstein WW2 Veteran WW2 Veteran

    Diane

    In the winter of which you write, I was stationed at Rieti in Central Italy, being re-trained as tank crew.

    We used to go into town for some recreation and then, before making our way back to the barracks we would call into a local bar.

    The barman used to put a double shot of Grappa into a small tumbler, add a slice of lemon and a teaspon full of sugar and the put the glass under the scalding spout of the coffee making machine.

    We would then knock back this potent toddy and sprint two miles back to the barracks before the effect could wear off !

    I havn't tried the drink since then.............. perhaps this New Year's Eve ?

    Cheers

    Ron
     
  20. Gage

    Gage The Battle of Barking Creek

    January of 1940 also sounded quite bad :-
    'Snow came in all it's fury. There was snow everywhere; it blocked the runways, the hanger doors and it got into the aeroplanes, it made life unbearable. The road to Lincoln was blocked for a week.'
    Enemy Coast Ahead by Guy Gibson.
     

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