Winston Special Convoy - which ship

Discussion in 'The War at Sea' started by JimmyC1983, Aug 29, 2017.

  1. JimmyC1983

    JimmyC1983 Member

    Hello all

    Is there any way of me determining which ship my Grandfather (James William Alfred Condron) sailed on with the 53rd Field Regiment R.A. when he left the Clyde on 17 July 1942 bound for Egypt. Believe he was part of convoy WS21P.

    There were 5 ships in the convoy:

    Empress of Japan
    Duchess of Atholl
    Oronsay
    Windsor Castle
    Duchess of York

    Can anyone narrow it down further than that?

    Would really appreciate any help.

    James
     
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  2. Charley Fortnum

    Charley Fortnum Dreaming of Red Eagles

    You may or may not find the information here:

    WINSTON SPECIALS

    The unit war diary is very likely to mention it, is it not?
     
    timuk likes this.
  3. Tricky Dicky

    Tricky Dicky Don'tre member

    WS 21P
    From: CLYDE Friday, 17 July 1942.
    To: FREETOWN Monday, 27 July 1942

    AMERICAN MANUFACTURER Amer 6,678 1941
    BUXTON ESCORT 17/07 - 20/07
    DUCHESS OF ATHOLL Br 20,119 1928 4114 TROOPS
    DUCHESS OF YORK Br 20,021 1929 4004 TROOPS
    EMPIRE ORIOLE
    EMPRESS OF JAPAN Br 26,032 1930 4337 TROOPS
    EXHIBITOR Amer 6,736 1940 WITH DEFECTS
    GEORGETOWN ESCORT 17/07 - 22/07
    HAWAIIAN SHIPPER Amer 7,775 1941
    MORMACDALE Amer 6,976 1942
    NEPAL ESCORT 17/07 - 27/07
    ORION ESCORT 17/07 - 27/07
    ORONSAY Br 20,043 1925 4348 TROOPS
    SANTA CRUZ Amer 6,925 1941
    SEATRAIN TEXAS Amer 8,108 1940 DETACHMENT DATE ESTIMATED
    TARN
    TJERK HIDDES ESCORT 17/07 - 27/07
    WINDSOR CASTLE Br 19,141 1922 2494 TROOPS
    ZAANDAM

    Arnold Hague convoy database - misc convoys

    TD
     
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  4. timuk

    timuk Well-Known Member

    From Arthur Hague's Convoyweb site:
    WS 21P - Freetown 27/07/42, Capetown 13/08/42, Aden 29/08/42.
    War Diary will almost show ship Regt was embarked in. All the ones I've seen do.
    Charley Fortnum - Many thanks for link to Winston Specials. Never heard of it before and have just read review. It may answer some of my own questions so I'll get a copy from Amazon.
    Tim
     
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  5. Charley Fortnum

    Charley Fortnum Dreaming of Red Eagles

    On the completely random chance that you are interested in W.S. 2, I have a copy of that section you could have.
    (kindly supplied by Bamboo43, of this parish)
     
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  6. JimmyC1983

    JimmyC1983 Member

  7. timuk

    timuk Well-Known Member

    Thanks but my primary interest is in WS12Z and after splitting DM1. However the book looks very interesting..
    Tim
     
  8. bamboo43

    bamboo43 Very Senior Member

    James and Tim. If you give me 24 hours or so, I'll gladly scan the relevant pages from the WS book.
    I'm thinking that is 21P and 12Z respectively.
     
  9. JimmyC1983

    JimmyC1983 Member

    Yes please to WS21P. That is very kind of you - thank you
     
  10. timuk

    timuk Well-Known Member

    Yes please. WS12Z departed Clyde 13 Nov 42 (actually 2345 on 12 Nov) for Durban via Freetown. If the book covers it DM1 Durban to Malaya arrivied Singapore 13 Feb. Very kind of you, absolutely no rush.
    Tim
     
  11. timuk

    timuk Well-Known Member

  12. bamboo43

    bamboo43 Very Senior Member

    Here you are James. I hope there is something new within these pages:

    1.jpg 2.jpg 3.jpg 4.jpg 5.jpg 6.jpg
     
  13. bamboo43

    bamboo43 Very Senior Member

    And for you Tim, the same hope.

    1.jpg 2.jpg 3.jpg 4.jpg 5.jpg 6.jpg 7.jpg 8.jpg 9.jpg

    Chapter Notes WS21P a.jpg Chapter Notes WS21P b.jpg
     
    Last edited: Aug 30, 2017
  14. timuk

    timuk Well-Known Member

    That was quick and very very many thanks. A quick scan through shows up some additional info. I see WS12Z was changed from WS13. The 6HAA and the 35th should have got the message earlier - embarking on the Empress of Japan, sailing for all practical purposes on 13 Nov, arriving in Singapore on 13 Jan and at Dock 13 in Keppel Harbour!!
    Tim
     
  15. bamboo43

    bamboo43 Very Senior Member

    Hi Tim,

    Glad the pages were of interest. The book is very well researched, albeit a little dry as a full read. It has proven to be an excellent reference tool however, I picked out the convoy which took my grandfather to India in mid-1942; although I cannot narrow him down to any particular ship.

    Steve
     
  16. timuk

    timuk Well-Known Member

    I know the 35th LAA were on the Empress of Japan transferring to the Narkunda at Durban from several sources but in particular the War Diary. The book seems to think they embarked on the Narkunda in the Clyde but that is definitely incorrect. One point I will have to check again is the book states SS Sussex unloaded the AA guns, I had always believed that the guns were on one of the ships that went to Bombay and the were re-armed from Singapore stocks. I may well have been wrong as the War Diary makes no mention of it. Thanks again.
    Tim
     
  17. bamboo43

    bamboo43 Very Senior Member

    Sorry Tim, I should have thought of this before. Please find attached the Chapter Notes for WS 12Z. These might be of use to you.

    Chapter Notes WS12Z.jpg
     
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  18. timuk

    timuk Well-Known Member

    Steve,
    Thanks for that. Still doesn't answer the question of the guns! They should have had 18 per Battery but they only deployed 12 per Battery in Singapore. However I think I know where the answer may lie, just I can't get to the record just yet.
    Many thanks,
    Tim
     
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  19. JimmyC1983

    JimmyC1983 Member

    Thanks so much Steve. These pages are of real interest. Really appreciate it.

    James
     
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  20. bamboo43

    bamboo43 Very Senior Member

    No problem, glad to have assisted your research a wee bit.
     

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