William James & John Richard McSparron

Discussion in 'Non-Commemorated War Dead' started by Owen Ap Benfro, Dec 3, 2012.

  1. Trying to understand why Petty Officer Steward William James is not listed CWGC.

    By the details on a Pembrokeshire grave, William James was K.I.A. on the 02nd June 1942 aged 34 yrs, however he is not listed on CWGC(that I can find). I have been in contact with CWGC who acknowledged they hold no details on him.
    On the same grave is listed Petty Officer Steward Thomas George James who was accidentally killed on 29th May 1946 aged 35 yrs. CWGC note he was on HMS Hecla at the time of his demise.
    I am currently presuming they are both the sons of Robert & Ellen Letitia James nee’ Lloyd of Pembroke Dock who mrd there in 1902.
    So why is one son listed and not the other ?

    How does one go about getting CWGC and other serious websites to accept factual corrections ?

    CWGC show Petty Officer John Richard McSparrow lost on HMS Prince of Wales 10 Dec 1941. His proper name is John Richard McSparron born at Steynton 1917 the son of John J & Adelaide F.M. McSparron who had mrd in 1916. I believe the family where running Steynton Post Office at the death of Millicent Nadia McSparron in 1929 aged just 4 weeks.

    Rgds
    Owen Ap Benfro
     
  2. CL1

    CL1 116th LAA and 92nd (Loyals) LAA,Royal Artillery Patron

    Hello Owen
    death cert would possibly list the cause of death of William James.If it states died on service etc it could also state his service number.

    Re McSparron
    send any supporting documentation to CWGC also request they check the spelling.

    regards
    clive
     
  3. Steve Mac

    Steve Mac Very Senior Member

    Trying to understand why Petty Officer Steward William James is not listed CWGC.

    By the details on a Pembrokeshire grave, William James was K.I.A. on the 02nd June 1942 aged 34 yrs, however he is not listed on CWGC(that I can find). I have been in contact with CWGC who acknowledged they hold no details on him.
    On the same grave is listed Petty Officer Steward Thomas George James who was accidentally killed on 29th May 1946 aged 35 yrs. CWGC note he was on HMS Hecla at the time of his demise.
    I am currently presuming they are both the sons of Robert & Ellen Letitia James nee’ Lloyd of Pembroke Dock who mrd there in 1902.
    So why is one son listed and not the other ?

    Owen Ap Benfro

    Hello Owen,

    The only William James KIA on 2 June 1942; could he have been RAF?

    JAMES, WILLIAM EDWARD
    Rank: Sergeant
    Trade: W.Op./Air Gnr.
    Service No: 1285913
    Date of Death: 02/06/1942
    Regiment/Service: Royal Air Force Volunteer ReserveGrave Reference: Coll. grave 28. C. 17-18.
    Cemetery: REICHSWALD FOREST WAR CEMETERY
    Additional Information:

    Best,

    Steve.
     
  4. ritsonvaljos

    ritsonvaljos Senior Member

    Good day Owen,

    A contemporary newspaper obituary (from 1942) would be useful and should be accepted as part evidence by the CWGC, provided you have got some other documentary evidence. Do you know yet if William James is actually buried in the grave, by any chance? If so, try and get a copy of the relevant entry from the burial register.

    Even then, the Commission tend not to even begin a line of enquiry without a Death Certificate. It may be difficult to obtain if the casualty has died at sea. In any case, it will be you who incurs the expense of the death certificate. .

    There are several WW1 and WW2 casualties I know of who are buried in cemeteries near where I live that the Commission does not recognise as 'official' war casualties (e.g. a repatriated POW from WW2 who died at home in 1944 a few weeks after being allowed out of the German prison camp).

    The most recent casualty I contacted the Commission about dates from WW1. This fellow died at home a few weeks after being discharged due to serious injuries sustained while serving on the Western Front (1917). After managing to obtain this fellow's service record, burial record and again purchasing a copy of the Death Certificate the CWGC has passed it to the MoD to consider.

    Depending on the documentary evidence you have or can obtain you may or may not get a positive result. There have been some instances where the Commission will accept the evidence and rectify an incorrect entry.

    Good luck with your quest.
     
  5. Sorry, but I am a O.A.P. in poor helath, without the finances to purchase all the many Death Certificates that are required to prove all the errors and ommisions I have proven beyond doubt that appear on CWGC and other Main Websites.
    William James was either M.N. or R.N., the later the most lightly, had no connection to the R.A.F.
    I have already studied all newspapers for each year from 1880 to the 1950's and a number of various years after before and after that period, to add to my own research. I have been able to overcome a number of errors also in newspapers and other documents in my research.
    The number of ommissions and errrors I can prove for W.W. 1, make the same problems I know of for W.W. 2 pale into insignificance by comnparison, and that is just for 1 county and the border areas of 2 others.
    Just 1 example ; An infantry officer listed "Plug Street" with no known grave who was thought to have been killed in a raid on German trenches, was alive and in a known hosptial months after the date CWGC give for his death.
    Rgds
    Owen Ap Benfro
     
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  6. CL1

    CL1 116th LAA and 92nd (Loyals) LAA,Royal Artillery Patron

    Hello Owen

    perhaps you could pm forum member Chris Harley he may be able to assist you further.

    regards
    Clive
     
  7. chrisharley9

    chrisharley9 Senior Member

    Owen

    a check of Naval GRO does show McSparron; however to get this changed to do need a bit more evidence. Would you be prepared to let me have what you have got.

    CWGC will not use newspaper reports as primary evidence due to the errors contained in newspaper reports; I have one case from World War One where the newspaper showed that he died from wounds received on the Western Front. The DC showed something completely different in that he died from flu.

    We at IFCP could relieve you of the expense of getting DCs for non commemorated cases if you wish to share your research with us. All cases would remain in your name of course

    Cheers

    Chris
     
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  8. chrisharley9

    chrisharley9 Senior Member

    There is no William James listed on Naval GRO
     
  9. ritsonvaljos

    ritsonvaljos Senior Member

    Owen,

    Even if the CWGC does not officially recognise someone as a 'war casualty' there is nothing to stop them being commemorated on a war memorial or in a Book of Remembrance. In the future the research you are doing may well be the key to them eventually being recognised. Possibly if you take up the offer of help from Chris they may be able to assist.

    You appear to be doing a grand job so do carry on!

    Good luck!
     
  10. Mike L

    Mike L Very Senior Member

    Excellent work Owen and I hope you take Chris up on his great offer.
    This is one of the things that this forum does so very well - putting like minded people in touch so that such apparent errors can be properly investigated and corrected if necessary.
    Well done both - I will keep an eye out for updates.
     

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