William Henry CLOVER

Discussion in 'Royal Engineers' started by Mavis Williams, May 19, 2019.

  1. Mavis Williams

    Mavis Williams Well-Known Member

    Hi everyone, I am wondering if you could help me find out what W.H. 5 Tng. Bn meant on a Casualty List, I need to find out how he died,and where really.

    Commonwealth War Graves Commission
    Sapper
    CLOVER, WILLIAM HENRY
    Service Number 1895395
    Died 17/08/1940
    Aged 26
    Royal Engineers

    Son of William Henry and Maria Clover, of Chester.

    Buried at HAWARDEN (ST. DEINIOL) CHURCHYARD
    Location: Flintshire, United Kingdom
    Number of casualties: 57
    Cemetery/memorial reference: North part.
    Casualty

    I have found out about his family, it is this that I am stuck on. Any help would be appreciated. Kind regards,
    Mavis Williams
     

    Attached Files:

  2. Charley Fortnum

    Charley Fortnum Dreaming of Red Eagles

    W.H. are his initials, which you have: William Clover.
    5 Tng. Bn will be 5th Training Battalion.

    I don't have anything specific on this, but somebody else might.

    Royal Engineers in the UK 1940 makes me think working on an unexploded bomb, but that's pure speculation.
     
    Tricky Dicky, timuk and dbf like this.
  3. Charley Fortnum

    Charley Fortnum Dreaming of Red Eagles

    Tricky Dicky and dbf like this.
  4. Mavis Williams

    Mavis Williams Well-Known Member

    Silly me! Of course. Apologies. I thought it might be 5th Training Battalion, but thought I had better ask, as I so easily get things wrong, which is the last thing I want. Many thanks for your swift reply - 7 minutes!!! Kind regards, Mavis
     
  5. Mavis Williams

    Mavis Williams Well-Known Member

    That camp is so close to us here. thanks so much. Regards, Mavis
     
  6. Mavis Williams

    Mavis Williams Well-Known Member

    Just found a death in Birmingham:-


    Surname First name(s) Age District Vol Page

    Deaths Sep 1940 (>99%)

    Clover William H 26 Birmingham 6d 149
     
  7. CL1

    CL1 116th LAA and 92nd (Loyals) LAA,Royal Artillery Patron

    3 RE below that look like an accident or the like

    Sapper LAMBERT, MICHAEL
    Service Number 2094019

    Died 17/08/1940

    Royal Engineers

    attd. 10th Bn.
    The King's Regiment (Liverpool)
    KENSAL GREEN (ST. MARY'S) ROMAN CATHOLIC CEMETERY

    Sapper THOMPSON, HAROLD WALTER
    Service Number 2001843

    Died 17/08/1940

    Aged 20

    Royal Engineers

    attd. 10th Bn.
    The King's Regiment (Liverpool)

    Son of Harry John and May Thompson.
    Buried at HORNCHURCH CEMETERY

    Location: Essex, United Kingdom
    Number of casualties: 105

    Sapper FEARON, ALBERT EDWARD
    Service Number 4270436

    Died 17/08/1940

    Aged 20

    Royal Engineers

    attd. 10th Bn.
    The King's Regiment (Liverpool)

    Son of Christopher Stephenson Fearon and Alice Fearon, of Byker, Newcastle-on-Tyne.
    NEWCASTLE-UPON-TYNE (BYKER AND HEATON) CEMETERY

    Sapper LUCAS, GEORGE
    Service Number 7895135

    Died 17/08/1940

    Royal Engineers

    Son of John and Catherine Manning, of Newton Heath, Manchester.
    MANCHESTER (PHILIPS PARK) CEMETERY
     
    timuk likes this.
  8. Tricky Dicky

    Tricky Dicky Don'tre member

    For others info

    William Henry Clover (Unknown-1940) - Find A...

    UK, Army Roll of Honour, 1939-1945
    Name: William Clover
    Given Initials: W H
    Rank: Sapper
    Death Date: 17 Aug 1940
    Number: 1895395
    Birth Place: Wiltshire
    Residence: Chester
    Branch at Enlistment: Other Corps
    Theatre of War: United Kingdom
    Regiment at Death: Royal Engineers
    Branch at Death: Other Corps

    TD
     
  9. Tricky Dicky

    Tricky Dicky Don'tre member

    Mavis the death in Birmingham

    Name: William H Clover
    Death Age: 26
    Birth Date: abt 1914
    Registration Date: Jul 1940
    [Aug 1940]
    [Sep 1940]
    Registration Quarter: Jul-Aug-Sep
    Registration district: Birmingham
    Inferred County: Warwickshire
    Volume: 6d
    Page: 149

    was registered in July 1940, your man was, as far I can see still alive at that date
    TD
     
    timuk and Charley Fortnum like this.
  10. Charley Fortnum

    Charley Fortnum Dreaming of Red Eagles

    I can't find a War Diary for the training unit.

    Does anybody have stronger Discovery-Fu than me?
     
  11. Mavis Williams

    Mavis Williams Well-Known Member

    Thank you everyone, wonderful again as usual. I looked at the Casualty List and he is said to have "Died", not died in an accident, wouldn't he have been under the ones on that list who did die of an accident? Just a thought, Thanks again, Mavis
     
  12. Richelieu

    Richelieu Well-Known Member

    Possibly linked to the air raid on the Liverpool Docks.
    “Died” suggests natural causes to me Mavis.
     
    Tricky Dicky and timuk like this.
  13. timuk

    timuk Well-Known Member

    Agree, usually means 'natural causes'. However see the entry in the list that has been manually amended so not conclusive. There may be an amending Casualty List. Think only way to be certain is to sight the Death Certificate.

    Tim
     
    Tricky Dicky and CL1 like this.
  14. Mavis Williams

    Mavis Williams Well-Known Member

    Thanks again all, but as I am researching a lot of men I cannot afford to buy the death certificates, but will keep on looking. Much appreciate your replies. Kind regards,
     
  15. Tricky Dicky

    Tricky Dicky Don'tre member

    Mavis

    I am in contact with an Ancestry member who has him in a private tree, they have him as the Birmingham death certificate - so trying to see if they have or will obtain a copy -

    Patience - if they havent a copy or wish to obtain one then you know your options and their relative costs

    TD
     
    CL1 and timuk like this.
  16. Tricky Dicky

    Tricky Dicky Don'tre member

    Mavis

    He did die in Birmingham

    Looking at the burial record of which I assume there is a copy at the Church but copied from FMP shows
    [​IMG]

    So I would assume this record below is his
    Name: William H Clover
    Death Age: 26
    Birth Date: abt 1914
    Registration Date: Jul 1940
    [Aug 1940]
    [Sep 1940]
    Registration Quarter: Jul-Aug-Sep
    Registration district: Birmingham
    Inferred County: Warwickshire
    Volume: 6d
    Page: 149

    We can assume that he:
    1. Died in Birmingham of a particular problem and this hospital specialised in that problem

    2. He was with his unit in the area near to the hospital and had something like a heart attack or whatever and was rushed there for emergency treatment that didnt work

    Maybe Vicar Evans was the Vicar for the Battalion

    Obviously if you need to know the exact cause of death then a certificate will be required, the Ancestry contact I have is not a direct descendant of him and like yourself is reluctant to cover the cost of the certificate for someone on the fringes of their tree.

    I would be interested to hear what you can find out about Vicar Shotton and any connections to the 5th Bat Royal Engineers

    TD
     
    Last edited: May 20, 2019
    CL1, Charley Fortnum and ozzy16 like this.
  17. Mavis Williams

    Mavis Williams Well-Known Member

    Thank you so much TD, I would like to know what happened to him of course, just so I can tell his story properly, not intricate details,because if a relative reads it then it's up to them to get the death certificate, Thanks again, I will wait patiently, if I can!!!
    Kind regards, Mavis
     
  18. Tricky Dicky

    Tricky Dicky Don'tre member

    Mavis - waiting patiently now wont I'm afraid provide any further details of his demise, or allow you to tell his story properly as you put it. The only way you can do that and honour his name is to apply for his death certificate, there is no one in the direct family interested enough I would guess to start a tree. I very much doubt if any direct relative of his will read the document you are preparing

    I have to say at times it is annoying that we [members of this site] go to deep levels of searching to find details of people for you yet when it comes to the last piece of the jigsaw, nothing happens.

    TD
     
  19. Tricky Dicky

    Tricky Dicky Don'tre member

    I have just re read your initial post and quote as above

    TD

    About Us
    Practical and financial help and support came from Flintshire Local Voluntary Council and then the Wales Heritage Lottery programme.

    Once a story has been researched and added to the website, the magic of the internet starts to work. Stories are very often enhanced and expanded by further information and scanned photographs which are sent to the project by family members of servicemen.


    I still dont see any mention of WW2talk.com
     
    Last edited: May 21, 2019
  20. Mavis Williams

    Mavis Williams Well-Known Member

    I have only just started adding these stories in the last week or so and I have mentioned WW2talk when you all have helped me. I do hope that you will continue to help as the stories need to be told, and if you go on flintshirewarmemorials.com/Connah's Quay & Shotton/WW2 Servicemen you will see the stories, but I do want you to know that these have only been added in the last week or so, before I couldn't for technical reasons. Please accept all of you on the Forum my undying appreciation of your help, without whom these stories would not have been told. Kindest regards, Mavis
     
    Charley Fortnum likes this.

Share This Page