William Alfred Stevens. Ship Purser/ Chief Steward

Hi Caroline,
Perhaps this will help re the document for ss CHINA - Crew Lists of the British Merchant Navy – 1915 if you go to the home page and search for W Stevens you will see another voyage on CHINA that he did in 1915.
It is for 1915, his previous ship was ss ARABIA. The CR1 card would have been filled in when his discharge book was checked on completion of a voyage or if he needed a replacement. Not many WW1 documents survive so you have one from 1913 - quite rare unless my eyesight is playing up could also be 1918. I did some simple maths for the date of his sea career, I found a passenger list about 1951 stating his time at sea up until that point was 42 years.
The CR1 with date 24 Mar 1925 is the date of engagment for a voyage on CHINA - the numbers and letters say Continuation of Dis A, Fee 2/6 [two and six old money]. When a discharge book was full he would need a new one which he would have to pay for. Being at sea for all those years would have needed quite a few books to record all of his voyages.

The CR10 shows his identity number which would have been on his Identity book or RS2 book. The identity book was eventually done away with shortly afterwards in favour of the discharge book.
You have been really unlucky as the CR 10 card usually shows a photo of the seaman which would have been dated about 1919 - sadly this photo is not present on the CR 10 for some reason.
Yes, the date of engagment on KAISAR I- HIND.

You are welcome and any questions please feel free.

Regards
Hugh

 

Once again a big thank you Hugh and everyone else for your contributions. I have uncovered so much in a matter of days. It is remarkable. From my calculations I reckon he went to sea in 1909. He appears on his parents census in 1911 stating he is a Steward on a ship. This would mean as you say he would have had numerous CR1 and CR10’s. Could this CR10 be his second one and the first had the photo? Would there be more CR10’s out there?
on one of his ships records for the China in 1915, his rating is BTS. What does the abbreviation mean?
Another small question... is there any way to find out when he was released from Milag.
I obtained his medal record and I’m having difficulty deciphering it.
william Stevens discharge No 264664. RPOW. 1939 has a cross through it, AT has a cross through it. PA has an R on top , WD has a cross through it, next column has 11 followed by number 64229
What does that all mean?

 

I think what you have there is his medal record for WW2

1939 =1939 to 1945 Star
AT = Atlantic Star
AF = Africa Star
PA = Pacific Star: Malaya, Singapore and the Pacific Ocean
BU = Burma Star
FR = France and Germany Star
WD = War Medal 1939 to 1945 Defence Medal

CL = Clasp

You state "william Stevens discharge No 264664. RPOW"

His discharge number from the form is 564664, and I would assume RPOW means Repatriated POW

TD

 

Hi Caroline,

• a cross through a code, indicating that the medal was issued
• a circle over a code, indicating that only the ribbon for that medal has been issued
• a cross and a circle, indicating that both a medal and a ribbon have been issued
• The letter ‘R’ over a code can signify that an application for that medal was reviewed and refused.

I suspect the Pacific Star was refused on the grounds that service could not begin towards that medal until 8 December 1941 by which time W.A. Stevens was a PoW.
The right hand number 64229 is his medal file reference and should be quoted if contacting the Registry of Shipping and Seamen in Cardiff about his medal entitlement and they can advise.

CR 10 cards were only introduced for a short duration i.e. 1918-1921 - there should be a photo but it has probably not survived.

- Although there can be in some circumstances the norm was only one. I have checked and there is only the one CR10 for him.

It is badly written but it should be BRS = bedroom steward.

There may be mention in his records CRS 10 which hopefully show the date and the ship that took him home but that is not guaranteed - need to obtain that record. Also the PoW record may have that information too.

Regards
Hugh

 

In the book “The Giving Years Shetland and Shetlanders, 1939 -1945 ” by the Shetland author James W. Irvine M.B.E writes about the raider Pinguin and the Storstad during 1940. Here is an extract from pages 88/89 on life a board the Storstad.

According to the Domingo's wireless operator, 520 men were penned below the iron decks, and he found conditions to be very bad. "We got half a pint of water a day, and the food was terrible. We were 42 days in these conditions. At Christmas we got a bottle of beer and two cigarettes".

Eventually they were landed at Bordeaux on 5th February 1941, so that the Shetlanders had been floating prisoners for nearly five months. Some of the prisoners had actually been held for over six months. After five weeks at Bordeaux they were taken by train to Germany, to Stalag XB, before being transferred to the merchant navy camp Marlag und Milag Nord, where, among the mass of prisoners, the boys met others from home, who had reached the camp before them. William Stickle had gone to sea in 1938, and was at sea in 1939 when war broke out. His life on the ocean had been brief when the German raider struck. Said William, "The camp was a bit hungry. But the Red Cross parcels were all-important. They kept in life". In due course the camp was liberated by a Scottish unit, and they were taken first to Belgium in Dakotas. From there it was home to Britain in Lancasters, in time to join the VE Day celebrations in Edinburgh.

On page 99 he writes about a crew member of the Maimoa which was sunk by the Pinguin on 20 November 1940.

In the world of the raiders the Pinguin sank the Maimoa in the Indian Ocean on 20th November. She was homeward bound from Australia, and her first warning of danger was a biplane, with British markings, flying across her trailing a weighted line with which the pilot attempted to tear away the Maimoa's aerial. He succeeded and also machine-gunned the ship. A second aerial was rigged, and Maimoa attempted to escape, but Pinguin's superior speed enabled her to close the range quickly, and under heavy fire the crew abandoned ship. Happily no one was killed, and the crew were transferred to the supply ship Storstadt which eventually landed them at Bordeaux on 5th February 1941. When these men were being taken by train to Germany two Australians jumped from the train and succeeded after many hardships in reaching Britain. 3rd Officer David J. Williamson of Whalsay was among the Maimoa's crew who ended up in Marlag und Milag Nord as POW.

 

UK, British Prisoners of War, 1939-1945
Name: W A Stevens
Rank: Chief Steward
Army Number: 564664
Regiment: Merchant Navy : Officers, Ratings & Foreign Seamen
POW Number: 88748
Camp Type: Marlag und Milag Nord (Milag)
Camp Number: Mil. N.
Camp Location: Poland
Name of Ship: Port Brisbane
Section: Merchant Navy : Officers, Ratings & Foreign Seamen


Suggest applying to the Red Cross for his POW file see post no 32 by Tullybrone in this thread Grandfather's service records, 1st Bn Border regiment


TD

 

here is the record. It is clearly BCS and I found the same abbreviations on other manifests. I don’t think it is bedroom steward but ....

 

Thank you so much again for all your help. Wow, there is so much. I contacted the Registry of Seamen in Cardiff and they will follow up with my request when Covid restrictions are lifted and they are back in the office.
They advised following up on his discharge book but didn’t know how. Any suggestions as to where I might find this
What is a CRS10 is this different to a CR10 and where would I find this?
I have investigated the Red Cross link supplied by TD. Applications are opening on 17th May. Is this the only place Where PoW records are held?
Thank you once again

 

TD thank you
I’ve ordered the marriage cert and anxiously await receipt of same. This is very exciting. Thank you everyone

 

It is the place that holds the best records, the only other possibility is that he completed a Liberation Questionnaire when he was released, but many didnt as they just wanted to get home, try contacting member PsyWar.Org his company may be able to help you.

You will need to be up early and be aware that the allotted amount they deal with will be gone very quickly, often within the first hour - there is also the time difference you need to take note of. There was a member who said they had gone [the number of enquiries allotted] before he even phoned only to realise he was phoning on UK time not Swiss time


TD

 

Caroline, easier said than done.
His discharge book is a seaman's record of service which lists all of his ships - Google an image search "continious certificate of discharge" which will show you what they are. However, they were the seaman's personal possession and unless you have it in your family the chances are it is long gone and a duplicate will never be had. The next best thing to his book is his CRS 10 which is a paper record of all of his ships - it is a messy document and it only begins from January 1941 but will list his service until he left the service or 1972 which ever was earliest. I have already given a link for his CRS 10. For service prior to 1941 you need to use crew agreements of known ships and work backwards.
The CR 10 is not the same as a CRS 10.

Regarding BCS - you are most probably correct here but it could also be BGS which probably relates to Bedroom General Servant or Bathroom GS. Just an educated guess on my part.

Regards
Hugh

 

I know nothing but did they actually refer to Bedroom Stewards rather than Cabin Stewards? What about B = Bar?

Tim

 

On bigger ships they tended to stick to one main task but on smaller ships they would multitask, probably as steward or assistant steward but there were a few different names such as you would not find on say an RN ship. BCS or BGS is only a term I have come across during the early 20 century.

Hugh

 

Hi all. W A Stevens becomes a chief Steward or purser by 1937 or maybe even earlier. In All the other records that I have found he is deck steward or steward. I think that BCS stands for something other than bedroom steward. It appears directly after deck steward in all the records I have found. What would a boy commissary do? I found that in one record?
I doubt I will ever get his discharge book. It would be fantastic but it is either long gone or with some long lost relation that I have yet to find.
Thank you for all the information regarding the differences between all the different types of documents he had. I think I am finally understanding them. Thank you for the link to someone who can research the CRS10 as I can not get to the UK.
Is there a list somewhere which gives each ships reference number. For example China is 104467 but what is Port Brisbane and Arabia.
Thank you once again

 

Caroline, this site is very helpful for searching for ships

search by number

Crew List Index Project

search by name

Crew List Index Project

 

It is an excellent site if I knew the ships register Number. Where would I find them

 

See edit above in post 36, you can search by name and number.

 

It looks as if William Alfred Stevens was sailing from 13 Nov 1945. Or this is another WA Stevens? His age, height and weight match. But not his length of service at sea. I had calculated that he went to sea in 1909.
What does 1 PE mean?
Why do his details have a line through them? Is this in connection with the comment that he claims he didn’t depart ship? This must have been shortly after being released from Milag

 

I am reasonably sure it is the same WA Stevens. It is fair to say that some of the information such as length of time at sea can be incorrect or rounded.

- No idea. But it refers to whether the seaman was a member of the crew on the last visit to the US.

- It can mean he didn't actually sail on that particular voyage or that he is named somewhere else on the manifest but there must be another reason as I am reasonably sure he would have sailed.
The comment about not departing ship is incorrect it actually says "claims not deported" and it refers to the whole crew who in terms of the US immigration authorities were all classed as aliens.
Regards
Hugh