Why Is Stalingrad So Important?

Discussion in 'The Eastern Front' started by ghvalj, Mar 28, 2005.

  1. stalingrad is very important to historians and people like us who have an interest in the battle
     
  2. Gerard

    Gerard Seelow/Prora

    There's no denying it was an important battle, Michael.
     
  3. kipoyph

    kipoyph Junior Member

    Stalingrad was important because all of a sudden, the Germans realized that they are going to see some very very angry Russians itching to march all the way to Berlin.
     
  4. Za Rodinu

    Za Rodinu Hot air manufacturer

    That's profound.
     
  5. Smudger Jnr

    Smudger Jnr Our Man in Berlin

    I believe Stalingrad became important only because of the name of the city and two leaders who were inflexible.

    As a result many perished on both sides.

    Regards
    Tom
     
  6. KevinC

    KevinC Slightly wierd

    A strange coincidence this thread popping up again. I've just bought "Stalingrad" by Anthony Beaver. Looking forward to a good read once I have finished my current book.
     
  7. Za Rodinu

    Za Rodinu Hot air manufacturer

    I believe Stalingrad became important only because of the name of the city and two leaders who were inflexible.

    As a result many perished on both sides.
    That's profound.

    Mk.II
     
  8. kipoyph

    kipoyph Junior Member

    A strange coincidence this thread popping up again. I've just bought "Stalingrad" by Anthony Beaver. Looking forward to a good read once I have finished my current book.


    Forget your current book and start reading. It's worth it.
     
  9. kipoyph

    kipoyph Junior Member

    That's profound.


    I'm serious, man.

    Before Feb 1943, the Germans were thinking "I'm gonna build my own dacha in Asia across the Volga where I will herd some sheep."

    After that, the Germans were asking "Who is the idiot that broke the lock that was keeping this mad bear caged?" :lol:
     
  10. canuck

    canuck Token Colonial Patron

    I'm serious, man.

    Before Feb 1943, the Germans were thinking "I'm gonna build my own dacha in Asia across the Volga where I will herd some sheep."

    After that, the Germans were asking "Who is the idiot that broke the lock that was keeping this mad bear caged?" :lol:

    Mk.III Turbo

    I wouldn't attempt to speak for my very erudite Portugese friend. He is more than capable but I suspect that he has no doubt of your earnestness. It's that the delivery and depth might be a tad light.

    Are these direct quotes or translated from the German?
     
  11. Za Rodinu

    Za Rodinu Hot air manufacturer

    Before Feb 1943, the Germans were thinking "I'm gonna build my own dacha in Asia across the Volga where I will herd some sheep."
    No. The German plan for Lebensraum on the east might involve individual settling or more likely settling by large agricultural concerns - the ideology was confused as usual, see Alfred Rosenberg and Walther Darré - while labour would be provided by serfdom provided by the local population strata.

    Your statements even if well meaning come at variance with the general tone of the thread, I've seen more reasoned posts. I trust you haven't read the thread from the beginning and saw how it evolved.
     
  12. L J

    L J Senior Member

    Mk.III Turbo

    I wouldn't attempt to speak for my very erudite Portugese friend. He is more than capable but I suspect that he has no doubt of your earnestness. It's that the delivery and depth might be a tad light.

    Are these direct quotes or translated from the German?
    :D:lol:
     
  13. Dave55

    Dave55 Atlanta, USA Patron

    Someone named Jay Bazzinotti posted this on Quora that I thought was good. Not sourced but good enough for me.

    I would like to emphasize that this effort was made primarily to explore the fate of German generals in response to the question, however, many readers have asked that other Axis leaders be included. This is NOT an exhaustive effort of the other Axis powers and doubtless many other are missing.

    After the battle and in the snow melt the Russians recovered over 250,000 Axis bodies on the ground; In addition to the destruction of the German 6th Army, the Russians also destroyed the Italian 8th Army, the Romanian 3 and 4 Armies, the Hungarian 2nd Army and crippled the German 2nd Army, with total casualties exceeding 800,000. Please note the extraordinary number of generals who died right before their release. While no conclusion can be drawn one suspects murder on the part of the Russians.

    Total Generals listed here: 46, including Italian, Hungarian, Romanian and Croatian

    Able to escape capture (flown out of kessel or other): 11 (many more escaped outside the kessel and are not listed here)
    Killed in Action in Stalingrad: 1
    Committed Suicide rather than be captured: 2
    Died while in Soviet captivity: 8
    Deserted: 2
    Converted to Communism while in captivity: 10
    Returned from captivity: 25 (20 German, 4 Romanian and 2 Italian Generals)

    Fate of Captured General Officers at Stalingrad

    Friedrich Paulus – Generalfieldmarschall, 6th Armee – surrendered in Stalingrad to Soviets January 31, 1943. Converted to Communism while in captivity. Released in 1953 and died in Dresden, 1957, a bitter and despised man.

    Arthur Schmidt – Generalleutnant, Chief of Staff, 6th Armee - captured by Soviets at Stalingrad, January 31, 1943, spent most of the next 12 years in solitary confinement in Soviet captivity in Lubyanka prison; released 1955, an embittered, unrepentant Nazi. Died in 1987.

    Richard Lepper – Generalmajor, Artillery, 6th Armee – captured Feb 3, 1943, died in Soviet captivity March 30, 1943.

    Erwin Jaenecke - Colonel-General headed Pioneer Corps (Engineers) at Stalingrad as part of IV Armee Korps - wounded in Stalingrad and flown out; headed 17th Armee in Crimea, relieved when recommended German Army evacuate Sevastopol; Arrested for losing the city, acquitted by Guderian; spent five years in Soviet PoW camp, released 1955, died in 1960.

    Max Pfeffer - General of Artillery for IV Armee Korps - surrendered at Stalingrad, died in Soviet captivity, 1955.

    Otto Renaldi - Surgeon General of the Wehrmacht, flown into the kessel at the orders of General Paulus, he was a General primarily by courtesy as the highest ranking medical man in the army. He was the first German General captured by the Russians in Stalingrad on Jan 24 while trying to escape a Russian advance; he was released from Soviet captivity in 1955.

    Hans-Georg Leyser – Generalmajor of 29th Mot ID under IV Armee Korps surrendered in Stalingrad; died in 1980.

    Moritz von Drebber – Generalmajor of 297th ID under IV Armee Korps, surrendered in Stalingrad in January, 1943 and used as propaganda tool by Soviets; converted to Communism; died in 1968.

    Richard Stempel – Generaleutnant of 371st ID under IV Armee Korps; committed suicide in Stalingrad at the end of January, 1943 rather than be captured by the Soviets.

    Walter Heitz – Generaloberst, General of Artillery under VII Armee Korps, surrendered the entire central cauldron at Stalingrad Jan 31, 1943 and died in Soviet captivity, 1944 possibly of cancer.

    Carl Rodenburg – Generalleutnant of the 76th ID under VIII Armee Korps, surrendered at Stalingrad Jan 31, 1943, held in Soviet captivity until 1955, died 1992.

    Hans-Heinrich Sixt von Armin – Generalleutnant of the 113th ID under VIII Armee Korps, surrendered at Stalingrad, 1943, died in Soviet captivity, 1952.

    Karl Strecker – Generaloberst of Infantry, XI Armee Korps, surrendered at Stalingrad and held in Soviet captivity until 1955, died in 1973.

    Heinrich-Anton Deboi – Generalleutnant, 44th ID under XI Armee Korps surrendered at Stalingrad, Feb 1943, died in Soviet captivity, 1955.

    Alexander Edler von Daniels – Generalleutnant, 376th ID under XI Armee Korps, surrendered at Stalingrad, Jan 28, 1943, tortured in Soviet captivity, released (unknown), died in 1960.

    Eccard Freiherr von Gablenz – Generalleutnant, 384th ID under XI Armee Korps, flown out of Stalingrad, Dec 1942 just before division was destroyed and surrendered; commanded defense of Monte Castello, Italy, 1944, captured by Americans; died 1978.

    Hans-Valentin Hube, General of Panzers, XIV Armee Korps, flown out of Stalingrad by direct order of Hitler; received highest award Knights Cross with swords, oakleaves and diamonds; flown out of Stalingrad Jan 10, 1943. Commanded defense of Sicily where he saved over 100,000 German troops evacuated to Italy with all their equipment and horses; scheduled to command First Panzer Armee and led the Cherkassy Breakout operation; died in a plane crash April, 1944.

    Helmuth Schlömer – Generalleutnat, XIV Panzer Korps; involved in secret Stalingrad surrender negotiations without the approval of von Paulus; surrendered to Soviets, Jan 1943, converted to Communism and was released from captivity in 1949 and died in 1995 at the age of 102, one of the last German generals to die.

    Jobst Freiherr von Hanstein – Generaloberst, 3rd Mot ID under XIV Panzer Korps, surrendered Jan 28, 1943 to Soviets. Released from captivity (unknown); died in 1962.

    Hans-Adolf von Arenstorff – Generalmajor, 60th Mot ID under XIV Panzer Korps, surrendered January 28, 1943 to Soviets at Stalingrad; converted to Communism in captivity made appeal to German People and Army to overthrow Hitler, signed by 50 other captured generals, April, 1944. Died in Soviet captivity, 1952.

    Günther Angern – Generalleutnant and Commander, 16th Panzer Division under XIV Panzer Korps; committed suicide after failed escape attempt from Stalingrad, Feb 2, 1943.

    Walther von Seydlitz-Kurzbach – General of Artillery, 51st Panzer Korps, commanded three divisions at Stalingrad; relieved of command by von Paulus; escaped under fire by his own men to surrender to Soviets, converted to Communism, actively involved in subversion of captured officers and troops; raised “counter-army” of captured German soldiers to fight Germans; sentenced to death in absentia by Hitler for treason; charged with war crimes by Soviets, released from captivity in 1956, died in 1976. One of very few German Generals to receive pardon from Soviet Union.

    Alexander von Hartmann – Generalleutnant, 71st Infantry Division under LI Korps, killed in action in Stalingrad, January 26, 1943.

    Fritz Roske – Generalmajor, 71st ID under LI Korps surrendered in Stalingrad, Feb 3, 1943; released from Soviet captivity 1952.

    Richard Graf von Schwerin – Generalleutnant, 79th ID under LI Korps in Stalingrad; considered indispensable; flown out of Stalingrad by special transport with entire staff on January 9, 1943 and immediately returned to battle outside Stalingrad; used to assist in reconstitution of 6th Armee in France; fought in constant combat on the Eastern Front til the end of the war. Died in 1951.

    Georg Pfieffer – Generalleutnant, 94th ID under LI Korps; attached to 4th Romanian Armee, created a kampgruppe during the initial Soviet attack on Stalingrad allowing elements of German 4th Armee to escape; escpated encirclement at the last moment, received promotion and Knight’s Cross, worked to re-establish 6th Armee in Brittany; killed in action on June 28, 1944 near Mogilov during Operation Bagration.

    Werner Otto Sonne – Generalleutnant, 100th Jager Division under LI Korps, captured in Stalingrad Jan 28, 1943, died in Soviet captivity, 1952.

    Otto Korfes – Generalmajor, 295th ID under LI Korps; surrendered to the Soviets at Stalingrad Jan 31, 1943, converted to Communism and exhorted German troops to overthrow Hitler; immediate family arrested by Gestapo; both BIL indicted in June 20 plot to kill Hitler and tortured; released from Soviet captivity in 1948 and rose to rank of Major General in East German Police unit; died, 1964.

    Bernhard Steinmetz – Generalleutnant, 305th ID under LI Korps; severely wounded in combat in Stalingrad, Jan 9, 1943 and flown out by special transport; he recovered to lead the German 94th Division in Italy where he surrendered to the Americans at the very end of the war; died, 1981.

    Erich Magnus – Generalmajor, 389th ID under LI Korps, incapacitated by wounds or illness Jan 19, 1943, captured by Soviets Jan 31, 1943, released from Soviet captivity, 1955. Died, 1981.

    Martin Lattmann – Generalmajor, 14th Panzer Division under LI Korps, captured in Stalingrad Feb 3, 1943, converted to Communism in Soviet captivity. Released, 1949 to become head of East German police where he rose to rank of Major General. Died in 1976.

    Arno von Lenski – Generalleutnant, 24th Panzer Division under LI Korps; captured in January, 1943 and immediately converted to Communism while in Soviet captivity. Released 1948 to become an important leader and politician in East Germany. Died 1986.

    Wolfgang Pickertt – Generalmajor, 9th Flak Division under Luftwaffe 3 Flak Korps; flown out of Stalingrad by special transport to re-establish flak units for reconstituted 6th Armee, Jan 9, 1943, served with distinction for the remainder of the war. Died, 1986.

    Wolfe-Dietrich Wilke – Squadron Commander, 3rd Jagdgeshwader, escaped encirclement and saved the squadron from being overrun, Nov 19, 1942; worked to supply and defend Stalingrad; shot down over 162 planes. Killed in action March 23, 1944.

    Petre Dumitrescu – Commanding General Romanian 3rd Army; saw the Soviet encirclement before it happened but was ignored by German High Command; 3rd Army largely destroyed outside Chir, he escaped capture but later surrendered to the Soviets when Rumania changed sides. Acquitted of war crimes, he died in 1981.

    Constantin Bratescu – Brigade Commander of Romanian 1st Cavalary; captured at Stalingrad, Feb 1943 and went into Soviet captivity; released in 1948 and died in 1976.

    Constantin Constantinescu-Claps – General and Commander of Romanian 4th Armee, forced to retreat from Stalingrad by overwhelming Soviet force; accused of war crimes; retired from military service after Stalingrad collapse. Died 1961.

    Nicolae Tataranu - General, 20th ID, Romania, surrendered to Soviet Union in January, 1943, died in Soviet captivity, 1951.

    Romulus Dimitrius – General, 20th ID, Romania, surrendered to Soviet Union in Stalingrad, January, 1943, converted to Communism and was restored to rank in Romanian army after the war. Died in 1981.

    Victor Pavicic – Colonel-Commander of 369th Croation Reinforced Infantry Regiment destroyed in Stalingrad, killed while deserting, Jan 20, 1943.

    Mihail Lascar - Brigadier General commanding Romanian 6th Division, 4th Army. Took command of the 4th Army while it was being destroyed near Stalingrad. Captured by the Soviets and held in prison until 1945; he was a turncoat who eventually became commander of the Romanian Communist army and minister of defense in Romania; died in 1959 having received high honors from Nazi Germany, Stalinist Russia and Romania.

    Umberto Ricagno - Brigadier General of the 5th Alpine Light Division; forced into combat early in a desperate attempt to halt the Russian advance, his division was wiped out and he was captured in November, 1942. He was a PoW in Russia until 1950. When he returned to Italy he was given a ceremonial position as General of the Fallen. The “Julia” Division was restored to the Italian order of battle post-war and survives to this day.

    Etelvoldo Pascolini – Brigadier General of the 156th Infantry Division “Vincenza” which was considered a garrison division not fit for offensive operations and used for defense of communications lines. The Division was held in reserve and thrown into a battle for which it was neither prepared nor equipped and completely wiped out. Pascolini was captured by the Russians and held as a PoW until 1950. He died in Italy in 1956.

    Gustzav Jany - Colonel-General of the Hungarian Army which was placed between the Italian 8th Army and elements of the German 2nd Army outside Stalingrad. When the fighting started, the Italians and Germans were forced backwards but Jany refused to retreat and the entire Hungarian 2nd Army was wiped out, about 170,000 men of whom only 40,000 escaped. He received the Knights Cross from Hitler for his efforts and went on to fight with the Germans in the lost cause at Budapest. He was convicted of war crimes after the war and executed by firing squad in 1947. He was widely recognized as a butcher.

    https://www.quora.com/Did-the-German-Army-really-freeze-to-death-in-Stalingrad
     

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