Let me start off by saying I have not read any Monty bios. My opinion is based on references to him in other histories and bios. Generally, until recently, Monty hasn't fared well by American Historians and some brits as well. (Carlos D'Este being a notable exception. A lot of Monty disdain is second hand and frivolous. Such things as he being slow, cautious and deliberate and always fighting with overwhelming odds. (A red herring. All Generals worth anything try and ensure that at least locally they have superiority in numbers or if equal, surprise and the advantage of terrain in their favor.) So here's my Monty list of why I like the British Field Marshal 1) He was a commoner. 2) He resided in tents and with his troops (not in captured palaces) 3) He was visible to his men regularly and often 4) He knew how to handle large armies (Napoleon remarked on how the inertia of an army grew with it's size) 5) Tactical excellance 6) His choice of attire and hats 7) concern for the common soldier 8) His handling of American troops during Normandie and during the bulge. (he got high points from GI's during this. 9) His"sang Froid" equinamity, aplomb or whatever you choose in battle. 10) Even Eisenhower (and Bradley) acknowledged that there was no better man to handle field command at Normandy. (Patton may have be AS good, but doubtfully better. Away that's this barmy buggers take on it. Best regards from EBFE GM "Never before have so many be exploited by so few with so much success." George Bush
I am very proud to have served under Monty. And indeed in the Division he commanded at Dunkirk. He gained many plaudits in the rearguard actions. They were last out of Dunkirk, so Monty deemed we should be Firsts back. And where. Monty never wasted men lives, and we all knew it. If there was to be heavy casualties? we were aware that they could not be avoided, and that there would be a reward for those losses. He was an absolutely dedicated, and utterly ruthless Commander. He earned the respect of the men by his achievements. Anyone doubting his ruthlessness? should have seen Falaise. As I did. He had many enemies at home sat in their comfortable armchairs in the MOD. He was great general, and one that took Normandy ten days ahead of the planned schedule. His main plan was to gather the might of the Panzer's around the British,while the Americans got on with the Peninsula. The panzer's were ground down, with Monty's strategy of constant attacks, here there, all over the place. That strategy prevented the Panzer's from gathering for a mighty armoured punch. He kept them so busy, they were running from one attack to another trying to stem the constant attacks. To that end the American front was starved of Panzer's. At one time the British plan was so successful that there was only half a panzer div to fight the whole of the American army. He was bitterly criticized at home for the lack of action. But he kept the faith in his plan...Eventually resulting in a a massive defeat of the German army, and their headlong flight that never stopped till Arnhem. Squeaky voiced, utterly ruthless with the enemy, and his own officers. Up to scratch or back home with your bowler hat! Sapper
At the risk of upsetting the Monty fans on here. At best I think he can be descriped as competant. ITs a good lisr GM, by take ) Was he? His father was in the Church wasnt he? 2) Yea I think he was pretty good at this, PR or whatever 3) Yea same as above really. 4) Yea, but any better than anyone else? 5)Eh? unless you count traditional 3:1 ratio ww1 style tactics. 6) LMAO dirty stinking tank beret, just made him look silly, or that Floppy hat thing, such a PR stunt, "look im one of the men1" 7) yea, i think he did. 8) I think he secretly hated the yanks, i dont think he ever got out of the Tunisa state of mind. He throught they where undic[lined and incompetant. 9) no idea 10) Eisenhower Bradley nand Pattons quote about Monty crack me up. Did he calling him a little shit at one point? Can only imagine what PAttons was calling him behind closed doors. Even Churchill couldnt stand him, Maybe thats a good thing. PS just realised while looking through my new uniforms book, doesnt that little shit Monty actually outrank Eisenhower? Kev
Monty was the best there was in the British army but that does not mean he was a great commander. Given the superiority he enjoyed at El Alamein together with the ULTRA decrypts to have lost would have been truely amazing. The Sicily invasion when given allied air, sea and land superority the Germans were able to escape was truely amazing. The rate of advance of the British forces after their landing in southern Italy was truely amazing about the same speed as a snail. Though allied strategy in Normandy was to draw the German forces onto the British so that the Americans could break out it would seem that he did try to break out with no success. The failure to capture Walcheren Island to free up the approaches to the port of Antwerp shows a major lack of understanding about what was necessary on the supply side of the of the war after Normandy. He was probably aware that all things being equel the Britsh army was never going to beat the German army and to be fair neither was anybody else. He did try to minimise casualties and tried to avoid the blood baths of WW1.
Hi I vaguely remembered writing about Monty on an earlier thread and so I did a trawl. I found this: Monty ? He scared the daylights out of me ! I only saw him twice. The first occasion was at Sousse when he adressed 78 Div prior to the Div's landings on Sicily. We had spent what seemed like hours in a dusty field, all being lined up in our serried ranks, when he arrived in his jeep and in his distinctive nasel tone barked out "Break ranks and gather round me !" This, I must say, to the disgust of our superiors who had got us into beautiful parade ground formation in the first place ! The second time was in Sicily when in some now forgotten village I had to pull our wireless truck sharply to one side to let his jeep through a narrow road. My fellow wireless-op threw him a cracking salute and he went flying past. We were to lose Monty after Cassino as he went off to handle the D-Day operations and the 8th Army lost a bit of its sparkle from then on. Showman? yes..... Good commander? yes...... Out on his own ?.......yes RIP Montgomery
That's better Ron mate. And it comes from a man that got his knees brown long before I came on the scene. I could never quite understand why Monty was attacked from all sides? His record alone should have convinced the doubters..surely? I am sometimes amazed at the convincing way some talk on here, having never heard a gun fired in anger? It seems to me that Monty knew exactly what he was doing in front of Caen. If the doubters are not convinced by the fiery cauldron of Falaise?Then nothing will. Sapper
Brian Like your good self, I am a great believer in "De mortuis nil nisi bonum" particularly when it applies to Montgomery & Churchill. It is all too easy, sixty five years after the events in which they were involved, to nitpick and say "they should not have done this" or "they should never have agreed with that". In the war years that "we" both lived in, we, and by "we" I include the whole British people, were eternally grateful for both their efforts and I have yet to be convinced that "we" were wrong. Keep taking the tablets Ron
I am sometimes amazed at the convincing way some talk on here, having never heard a gun fired in anger? A good point, and well-taken, here.
Ever since I joined the army, I have always been thaught and lived by the sentence: "take care of your men". That is the first and last thing that needs to be adressed. If you do that, the lads will follow come hell or high water. To me Monty embodied this thought. He would not use flesh to solve a problem. And later in the war it would have been impossible due to the manpower crisis. The showmanship is a tool, like airpower or logistics. He remembered from the great war that he never saw the top brass. This led the Tommies to think that the Generals cared sod all about their men. The affection that 8th Army veterans have for Monty show that the tool worked. Monty also went about his studies in a professional way. This led him to some important discoveries that was put in good use during the war. Some notable examples is his concept of "balance", the intimate relationship between Air Force and Army, and the revolution in the use of Artillery. He knew to pick his subordinates, so he could concentrate on the big picture. If I had lived during the war I'd prefer to work under Monty, rather than somebody who did not worry about casualties. And of course he was not brilliant in every field, but he was good where it counted. I rank him as no.1.
patton often called people naughty names,but i enjoy this one.monty is a little s.o.b.,but he is no f###ing fool,thats for sure.4th wilts
During the Phoney War of 1939/40 Monty issued his men in 3rd Div condoms . He was told not too by the prudish 'higher-ups'. He looked after his men. Good bloke.
During the Phoney War of 1939/40 Monty issued his men in 3rd Div condoms . He was told not too by the prudish 'higher-ups'. He looked after his men. Good bloke. Monty was very keen on PT and keeping his men fit and well-trained. My grandfather (Sapper in the 225 Field Company RE) had the utmost respect for Monty. He briefly mentions him in his memoirs, re PT: This was in March 1941, as well as the physical exercise, the Company was ordered by Monty to do night-training exercises, etc. The 4th Division were part of the Army structure known as Southern Command, the GOC was General Montgomery, he was very keen on physical fitness and issued orders that every soldier had to compete in cross country runs every week and this included all officers. This order did not meet with the approval of a number of sappers in 225 [Fld Coy RE] and in consequence a number of NCOs had to be posted along the chosen route at check points, usually the route was on roads with good all round visibility to obviate short cuts being taken by the dissenters. A Company order issued was to the effect that the last 10 men completing the course would be put on “Spud Bashing”. (c) T. J. Garrett RE
I am sometimes amazed at the convincing way some talk on here, having never heard a gun fired in anger? Are you saying that we cant express our views because we havent seen action? If thats the case there'll be very few who will be posting then!!! We are all entitled to our opinion you know. Now having said that Monty was an excellent Commander of men and he was a brilliant motivator too. Just a pity about his interpersonal skills. But he wasnt hired to be popular. Not a bad Irishman :p
The Field companies Royal Engineers. Great lads..... I am not shouting down anyones views, just that sometimes they listen to the truth of what took place sapper
I just love all the armchair Generals in the world.!!!! By this I take it you mean that if a person wasn't there they do not have the right to an opinion. These forums are going to get mighty boring.
They have all the right in the world to say what they like. BUT.....not the Hollywood variety. For sadly, it is a fact that films since the war designed to make money on the USA circuit are now seen as "the real thing" When in fact much of it is complete rubbish. But I am also aware, that the Veterans are never going to convince the younger generation brought up on the Hollywood Versions... For it is manifestly obvious now, that when we old Vets depart. The "Hollywood Version" will reign supreme. Sapper
By this I take it you mean that if a person wasn't there they do not have the right to an opinion. These forums are going to get mighty boring. Not at all, I just love all the various opinions, Hindsight is marvellous thing.
