A Para Stands at the Door - a Bert Hardy Photo

Discussion in 'Airborne' started by Cee, Jul 25, 2012.

  1. BrianM59

    BrianM59 Senior Member

    Great that the author could get on here to add his views - sometimes I do think we wrap ourselves up in geeky detail occasionally and this has been a fascinating thread which added to my knowledge of film and photography in WW2. We are not well served by books on the subject and anything which adds to the field is to be warmly welcomed. On Getty images - they are a commercial company who charge huge fees for use of their images, their website is a nightmare and their captioning/index is totally geared towards advertising image use with no real historical empathy - such is life in the 21st century. Anything which makes me nostalgic for the Radio Times/Hulton Picture Library must be bad. In my experience I have seen huge photographic/historical potential wasted through absence of funding, sheer ignorance and lack of foresight - I strive to teach my students to see images in historical context and not just as illustrations, but it's difficult when these things are scattered so widely across the internet and re-posted by irresponsible people. Sorry, banging on now, but wanted to say thanks to all involved in a fascinating thread.

    PS, I'll be looking out for Mr.Marcou's books.....
     
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  2. BrianM59

    BrianM59 Senior Member

    PPS I met Bert Hardy myself in the 1980's in Liverpool - you could tell he was a formidable character then and he was in his mid 70's?
     
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  3. Cee

    Cee Senior Member Patron

    Brian,

    That was my impression of Getty Images as well, but you put it much more eloquently than I ever could. There is a list of David Marcou's work at the following site including a few links to his writings on Bert Hardy and the Picture Post. I believe he may have published The Cockney Eye in book form locally but was hamstrung by what he could and couldn't include in the way of images.

    http://lacrossehistory.org/literature/marcou.html

    There's also an interesting online article by Graham Harrison on the life and career of Bert Hardy on Photo Histories. One I personally should get someday is Bert's own autobiography entitled My Life

    http://www.photohistories.com/Photo-Histories/50/the-life-and-times-of-albert-hardy-1913-1995

    Regards ...
     
  4. BrianM59

    BrianM59 Senior Member

    Thanks for the info on Mr Marcou Cee - I have suffered from Getty on several occasions both professionally and privately - they seem solely interested in money. What I worry about is that large parts of our history is actually now owned by private companies whose only motive is profit - and some public institutions are just as bad. I appreciate they have running costs but impenetrable (or non-existent) indexes, restricted opening and a generally snotty attitude towards anyone who isn't what they regard as a 'professional' historian really don't help. There's a rant brewing but I won't indulge as it doesn't help.....
     
  5. Paul Pariso

    Paul Pariso Very Senior Member

    IMHO I think they are men from 10th Battalion Parachute Regiment taking part in Exercise Mush. Why? Because there was a Private E Boiling, 6401086, in 10 Para, who did his jump training at Ramat David in 1943 and also because I think the man sitting on the left wearing the beret might be Lt Brian Dean "Sammy" Carr ;)
     

    Attached Files:

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  6. Paul Pariso

    Paul Pariso Very Senior Member

    For easier comparison ..............
     

    Attached Files:

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  7. Cee

    Cee Senior Member Patron

    Hi Paul,

    Thank you for the Private E. Boiling find! We looked high and low behind the scenes for him without much luck and it pretty well confirms these men are from 10 Para. As for man in the beret being Lt Brian Dean "Sammy" Carr, it could very well be. I do see some similarity in the eyes and mouth.

    Back on Post # 23 Guy Hudson made an interesting comparison between a man in the Malindine photo and Hardy's "Para at the Door". As you can see I dismissed it at the time, but since then have had second thoughts in exchanges with Guy.

    Para Comparison.jpg

    I'll add a comparison that shows Capt. Malindine and Sgt Hardy were photographing the same stick of men on the training exercise. Hopefully it's not too confusing. Capt Malindine haunts me, he's always popping up in places I least expect him and it's usually Guy who points it out ... :lol:

    Comparison-Lettered.jpg

    Regards ...
     
    Last edited: Jul 11, 2023
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  8. Paul Pariso

    Paul Pariso Very Senior Member

    Hello Cee,

    Yes, I completely agree with Guy about the fella "in the door". I would put my mortgage on it being the same man as in the Malindine colour photo!

    The comparison pictures you've created do make it all very easy to see, well done and the other pics from the series just reinforce my opinion that this is definitely from Exercise Mush showing 10 Para troops.

    Would it be OK if I showed your comparison pics and the other Malindine pics to another group of Airborne enthusiasts to see if they can help?

    All the best :)
     
  9. Guy Hudson

    Guy Hudson Looker-upper

    Cee, Paul,

    6401086 BOILING Edwin Maurice Royal Sussex Regiment
    Born : 19/12/1918 Westbourne Sussex
    Married : 2Q 1944 Leicester
    Died : 4Q 2003 Coventry

    His marriage in Leicester in 1944 ties in with 10 Para being stationed at Somerby Leicestershire during this period.

    His name or number doesn't appear on any pow list so he may have been one of the lucky few to escape?

    Guy
     
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  10. Paul Pariso

    Paul Pariso Very Senior Member

    Excellent stuff Guy, thanks very much :)
     
  11. Cee

    Cee Senior Member Patron

    Thanks Guy as always. I think we are starting to get a sense of who these men are. Paul please do show around, all help gratefully received .... :)
     
  12. Paul Pariso

    Paul Pariso Very Senior Member

    Thanks Cee :)
     
  13. Roy Martin

    Roy Martin Senior Member

    Would this be the same Bert Hardy who took photographs of all the properties that were requisitioned in and around Tyneham Dorset in December 1943?

    Roy
     
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  14. Cee

    Cee Senior Member Patron

    Hi Roy.

    Thanks, I wasn't aware of that episode in Hardy's wartime photography. The photos are catalogued at the IWM, but not shown. You can catch a glimpse of them on the Tyneham and Worbarrow site.

    http://www.iwm.org.uk/collections/item/object/205013533

    http://www.tynehamopc.org.uk/hollow_ditch.html

    Regards ...
     
  15. Roy Martin

    Roy Martin Senior Member

    Hello Cee,

    Thanks,

    My daughter-in-law and granddaughter copied the set for me, that's where the Hollow Ditch photo's come from. I have sent the set to Martin White the webmaster for Tyneham and can send copies to anyone who is interested.

    Roy
     
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  16. Cee

    Cee Senior Member Patron

    Hi Roy,

    Thank you for filling us in. That's a very kind offer - you may get a few takers there ... :)

    Regards ...
     
  17. Guy Hudson

    Guy Hudson Looker-upper

    I have received confirmation from the family that 'BOILING SIGNALS' is Edwin Maurice Boiling of the Royal Sussex Regiment and 10 Para.
    Guy
     
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  18. Cee

    Cee Senior Member Patron

    Way to go Guy! :)

    I think I'm safe in saying that you have confirmed beyond doubt the identity of Edwin Maurice Boiling, the man seated 2nd left in the Malindine photo (TR1662).

    Boiling-TR1662.jpg

    On the down side I contacted a close relative of Capt. Brian Dean "Sammy" Carr and she was confident in saying that Paul's comparison is not a match - so no, unfortunately, it's not him ...sigh.

    Regards ....
     
    Last edited: Jul 11, 2023
  19. brithm

    brithm Senior Member

    This Chapter is where 10th Parachute Battalion were in England before going to Arnhem scanned from Brammal's 10th Parachute Battalion Book
     

    Attached Files:

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  20. Cee

    Cee Senior Member Patron

    Brithm,

    A very interesting and at times amusing read and gives a good overall view of 10 Para during training and the lead up to Arnhem. Tex Banwell comments on an earlier Picture Post story but no mention of the photo and film documentation by AFPU on Exercise Mush. Although briefly told there is also another example of Paras dropping into a sports match.

    Regards ...
     
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