lance sergeant, just to let you know, i was in 94 loc. regt. 73 sphinx bty, a surveyor/soundranger. 1973-1977, maybe i know your mate, small world if i do though. steve
I put down paratroopers...you flew in a plane over enemy-held territory, jumped out of it at 160 feet, with only a brightly-colored parachute and your gear, fell to earth amid hostile fire, and had to fight a battle while surrounded. It required physical and mental toughness. Being a test pilot was a tough chore then as now, of course.
I put down paratroopers...you flew in a plane over enemy-held territory, jumped out of it at 160 feet, with only a brightly-colored parachute and your gear, fell to earth amid hostile fire, and had to fight a battle while surrounded. It required physical and mental toughness. Ummm, 'jumped out of it at 160 feet'? Fell to earth would be about right as I'm sure you wouldn't get to line streatch before arriving a little faster than intended on the DZ. Factor in 'all round checks', 'releasing bundle' and 'preparing for landing' and you might as well not bother. The modern LLP requires a minimum of 250 foot, with 11 seconds from 'door to floor' and the LLP stands for 'Low Level Parachute'. No argument with the need for physical and mental toughness, but where did you get 160 ft from?
Modern paratroopers use freefall techniques such as HALO (High Altitude, Low Opening) and HAHO (High Altitude, High Opening) In both the trooper is dropped from 10,000 ft i think.
Modern paratroopers use freefall techniques such as HALO (High Altitude, Low Opening) and HAHO (High Altitude, High Opening) In both the trooper is dropped from 10,000 ft i think. I think you'll find that, although still trained in, HALO is no longer considered the best tactical option. You have to fly over the area you wish to land in and at night the opening of canopies at low altitude can be heard and are very distinct. HAHO on the other hand allows you to exit an aircraft in commercial jetways at commercial altitudes (30,000 - 45,000 ft) and fly virtually undetectable over 60 miles to your target. These techniques are however not used for mass insersion but for SF teams and specialists. Mass airborne drops still use static line deployment at 500-800 ft, although the LLP has as I have mentioned been tested as low as 250 ft. That was however only done over a lake to minimize the risks if things went wrong and the landings were slightly harder than expected. Still, must have been difficult to get out of the door with b***s that big!:mellow:
lance sergeant, just to let you know, i was in 94 loc. regt. 73 sphinx bty, a surveyor/soundranger. 1973-1977, maybe i know your mate, small world if i do though. steve Thanks for that steve , I think he was in about 1984-87, he was on the drones I think. His name's Jim Green.
I think you'll find that, although still trained in, HALO is no longer considered the best tactical option. You have to fly over the area you wish to land in and at night the opening of canopies at low altitude can be heard and are very distinct. HAHO on the other hand allows you to exit an aircraft in commercial jetways at commercial altitudes (30,000 - 45,000 ft) and fly virtually undetectable over 60 miles to your target. These techniques are however not used for mass insersion but for SF teams and specialists. Mass airborne drops still use static line deployment at 500-800 ft, although the LLP has as I have mentioned been tested as low as 250 ft. That was however only done over a lake to minimize the risks if things went wrong and the landings were slightly harder than expected. Still, must have been difficult to get out of the door with b***s that big!:mellow: Not being parachute trained I would have thought that one potential problem with HAHO especially at night is the risk of winds taking you miles off the drop zone. Don't know if there is any truth in it, but an Army assistant PJI said that hitting water at speed with a parachute was like hitting concrete and he preferred dry land. He did say however he trained with the Foreign Legion when they were trying out parachuting into trees for deployment in the jungle, so he was used to different environments. I would have thought that they would be wary of big drops near water after the tragedy when 1Para (I think!!) lost ten or fifteen paratroops when they drowned in Germany, when they landed in a canal from a mass drop. I think it was mid seventies. Then again you say if I interpret it right that LLP would only be used by SF and so it wouldn't necessary to the Paras per se -then again if operation demands warrant it!!! Is the LLP a para commander/wing type or the round canopy? Agree on the b***s bit. If I jumped out I would be deploying the chute straight away. Doing it night when you cant see a thing and leaving it and leaving it till the last minute is almost in the realms of chicken. I would be sweating cobs!!!
Sorry LS, you are a little confused with your details there, maybe it is me not explaining things correctly. 1. HAHO is done with 'square' steerable canopies that enable you to accuratly fly the long distances (up to 65 miles) with the help of GPS. Wind and weather conditions would have been 'factored in' at the planning stage to ensure that the team could get to where they planned to go, from where they exited. 2. The LLP is a specially developed 'round' canopy designed for quick reliable opening and used for mass parachute drops. A paratrooper is most vunerable when between the aircraft and the ground. At this time he is unable to defend himself and has plenty of other things to concentrat on, it's not just a case of stepping out of the door and 'hanging around' until the ground arrives. The LLP reduces this time in the air by allowing a lower exit altitude. 250 ft is allowed during wartime, as it is the bear minimum required to allow the canopy to deploy, the paratrooper to do his checks, release his 'buindle' and prepare for landing... about 11 seconds. 3. Landing a military parachute is about the same as jumping off a 6-12 foot wall. Would you prefer to do that onto concrete or water? The tests were made over a lake to reduce the chance of injury in the case of the jumpers not having the time to prepare properly for landing. 4. Before the LLP the normal exit altitude for military static line jumps was 800 ft. The normal exit altitude for the LLP is 500 ft. It has been tested down to it's wartime exit altitude of 250 ft, which is why it is called the Low Level Parachute. 5. The Paracommander was/is a steerable round canopy developed for civilian use. Canopies are devided into 'round', 'square' and 'elliptical' in order of manouverability and performance. Hope that clears things up.
Thanks for that PP, it's cleared some points up. I have heard myself that the impact on landing is same/similar to jumping off the 6-12ft wall as well. The impact on water was his comments not mine. I know hitting water at speed ie from waterskiing and the like would be like hitting concrete - I can't see how hitting water from above at 5-10 mph would have that effect. Probably the victim of a wind up. I'm all ears as far as the facts go. How longs the LLP been in service?
LLP came into service some time in the 1990s, I couldn't give you a more accurate date off the top of my head, but I'm sure the final testing was completed in the early-mid 90s.
Thanks for that PP, it is not a part I am genned up on but once got interested curiosity got the better of me. Thanks again.
