White Rose members executed 22. Feb. 1943

Discussion in 'The Third Reich' started by HA96, Feb 21, 2018.

  1. HA96

    HA96 Member

    75 years ago, Hans and Sophie Scholl as well as other White Rose members were executed.
    I
    White Rose - Wikipedia

    Stefan.
     
  2. HA96

    HA96 Member

    Let me add a personal note.
    The Scholls and the other students and profs, were all from Ulm, a city badly bombed later in the war. Ulm is only 30km away from my todays home and lots of commemorations will be held there tomorrow. People in Ulm will ask the same questions again. Why was Ulm still bombed? Did the allies knew about the White rose?
    Stefan.
     
    Last edited: Feb 21, 2018
    Tricky Dicky likes this.
  3. Tricky Dicky

    Tricky Dicky Don'tre member

    Stefan

    Thanks for opening up this subject - something I know embarassingly little about

    TD
     
  4. jimbop

    jimbop Active Member

    why do you think the bombing of ulm had anything to do with 'white rose'???
     
    von Poop likes this.
  5. HA96

    HA96 Member

    I think I might have worded that wrongly.
    The very daring attempt of this group od civilians from Ulm, did not prevend the bombing of civilians, is what people are saying.

    Stefan.
     
  6. canuck

    canuck Token Colonial

    Even assuming that the White Rose activities were known to Bomber Command, I believe that would be irrelevant to their target selection process. The raids were not large scale but the presence and value of military targets (truck manufacturing) would be the only consideration. Over 1,500 French towns and cities were bombed with casualties nearing 175,000 so sparing a German city, for any reason, would seem unlikely .
     
    HA96 likes this.
  7. Drayton

    Drayton Senior Member

    The White Rose leaflets were not addressed to Bomber Command,but to fellow Germans, expressing what what was known but dare not be spoken: "Today every honest German is ashamed of his government"; Thousands of Jews have been murdered in the most bestial way"; "passive resistance to topple National Socialsm", and much more.

    Surprisingly, however, a copy of one leaflet was smuggled via Sweden to Britain, and reprinted as The Manifesto of the Munich Students, dropped by the RAF over Germany in June 1943. The beheading of Hans and Sophie and many others was a hard price to pay, but nonviolent resistance to oppression is an example still to be remembered after 75 years..
     
    Margaret Ann, HA96 and canuck like this.
  8. HA96

    HA96 Member

    I strongly believe in peace and not any ilitary actions.
    If you look to the Middle East, lots of military actions, and dead civilians and we still have no peace, but this should be another thread.
    Stefan.
     
    BarbaraWT likes this.
  9. Tricky Dicky

    Tricky Dicky Don'tre member

    HA96 likes this.
  10. HA96

    HA96 Member

    TD,
    thanks a lot, I did not know about Freisler's end.
    Stefan.
     
  11. jonheyworth

    jonheyworth Senior Member

    Whilst I have nothing but the utmost admiration and reverence for the white rose movement and their utter courage and sense of morality, I doubt the British authorities had much time to consider what little they knew in the prosecution of the war and Ulm had several important industries including two major truck factories.
     
    HA96 likes this.
  12. Harry Ree

    Harry Ree Very Senior Member

    Ulm was targeted only once by the RAF and that was on the night of 17/18 December 1944.It was not considered a prime target but attracted attention on account of the two lorry manufacturers centred there,......Magirius-Deutz... Deutz quality diesel engines..road transport and powered fire engines and Kassbohrer.... passenger vehicles and trailers. In addition there was a military garrison based there....the Gallwitz Barracks and other Wehrmacht depots. Ulm lies on the Danube and river traffic and facilities might also been taken into consideration.

    Civilian casualties were recorded as 606.The casualties could have been higher but the Gauleiter ordered an evacuation of women and children which although planned for 18 December by the Ortsgruppenleiter was brought forward to the evening of the raid and led lead to the inner city being evacuated.

    As regards German resistance against Hitler,the British authorities were never drawn into any clandestine German circles after having their fingers burnt in the Abwehr deception known as the Venlo Incident during the phoney war era.

    It was thought that Hitler could only be overturned if the Wehrmacht rebelled but apart from the 22 July 1944 plot,the Wehrmacht generals maintained their oath of loyalty to Hitler to the end.

    Thomas Mann honoured the White Rose group in a BBC transmission to Germany on 23 June 1943. Supporting this initiative, the 5th and final flyer was distributed by the RAF as being from the National Committee "Free Germany"..the call of the flyer was "Support the Resistance Movement,Distribute these Flyers"

    As for Roland Freisler,a long standing NSDAP member, was the judge who tried the 22 July 1944 plotters with vindictive outcomes.He was killed during an USAAF air raid on 3 February 1945 while judging the Solf Circle treason trial.Some defendants were able to gain their freedom when their files were lost in the raid and consequently were released from custody.

    Some time ago there was public concern raised in Germany when it transpired that Freisler's widow was drawing a war widow's pension.Despite protests the pension entitlement was not overturned.
     
    Last edited: Feb 26, 2018
    Owen, TriciaF, RosyRedd and 3 others like this.
  13. TriciaF

    TriciaF Junior Member Patron

    I think I read about the White Rose resistance in one of the books mentioned on the What are you Reading thread.

    It was such a tragic story, I couldn't finish reading the book.
     
    HA96 likes this.
  14. HA96

    HA96 Member

    n
    Tricia,
    very tragic indeed. They were still so young, but my heroes for trying the impossible. Both were students in Munich, but originated from Ulm, a city only 30km north of where I live.
    The book should be given to any Neo Nazi of today in the hope to make them realise how cruel the Nazis were.
    Stefan.
     
  15. Smudger Jnr

    Smudger Jnr Our Man in Berlin

    They stood up for their principles and paid the ultimate price.
    Many other Germans were executed for going against the Regime.
    Not just those who carried out acts against the NS but it effected all family members too who were also arrested.
    Truly brave acts when you consider the repercussions when caught.
    Regards
    Tom
     
    HA96 likes this.
  16. canuck

    canuck Token Colonial

    There are numerous accounts of individuals like Josef Schulz or Fritz Lindermann who paid the price for failing to execute civilians and many senior officers who were cashiered for the same reluctance.
     
    HA96 likes this.
  17. HA96

    HA96 Member

    Yes indeed one of my uncles was not executed, but sent to fight in Stalingrad and never returned.
    Rudi just left this world for everfor opening up his mouth for a minute or two.
    Stefan.
     
  18. KevinBattle

    KevinBattle Senior Member

    As regards people asking "Why was OUR town bombed?" I think the list would run into thousands....

    Having suffered only one raid during the whole 6 years of the War, well, they should count themselves very fortunate.
     
    HA96 likes this.
  19. Harry Ree

    Harry Ree Very Senior Member

    As regards military service,apparently 5000 men who refused conscription were executed,quite a number by the guillotine.

    The German population must have known what was coming in that Hitler revived conscription in 1935,the Luftwaffe was revealed..... then the 5 year plans were laid down as the foundation for war.
     
    HA96 likes this.
  20. HA96

    HA96 Member

    Trouble is, like myself, we started school in the early fiftees withGerman history lessons from approx.1920. Quote my history teacher:"O my god, we suffered so much by the treaty of Versailles, We were so much looking for leadership. OK, The F├╝ehrer over did it, but does that justify to bomb civilians as well.? certain factories ok, but why all houses around2 km as well?" I remember these statements by our teacher very well.

    Unfortunately many Germans, never looked into the history back to the beginning of WW1 and came and some still do to the wrong conclusions.
    I fully understand the reasons why German cities were bombed by the Allies - stillII hated wars and will hate wars as long as I live.
    There are better solutions!

    Stefan.
     
    Smudger Jnr, Tricky Dicky and canuck like this.

Share This Page