Which mark of 5th Div Universal Carrier is this, in Sicily?

Discussion in 'Weapons, Technology & Equipment' started by Owen, Mar 30, 2007.

  1. Owen

    Owen -- --- -.. MOD

    Quote:
    <table width="100%" border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0"> <tbody><tr> <td style="border: 1px inset ;" class="alt2"> Originally Posted by Owen [​IMG]
    It's the jagged line type, can't remember offical name, shark fin?
    </td> </tr> </tbody></table>

    that pattern is the caunter pattern.
    No way Rich is that shark fin camo called Caunter.
    Your next post shows Caunter off perfectly.
     
  2. Richard Harrison

    Richard Harrison Senior Member

    iam lost...i presumed the straight line type cammo was the caunter pattern.... my mis-interpretation. i have both volumes of the carrier book by Nige will have a peep.

    the best pattern of all time was the maltese patern and it looks awesome !
     
  3. Rich Payne

    Rich Payne Rivet Counter Patron 1940 Obsessive

    Is the disruptive pattern on the Tunisia Carrier not simply a variation of what is referred to as 'Foliage ' pattern in 'Painting of Mechanical Transport 1941' ?

    If so, the darker colour may well be SCC No.1A (very dark brown) over Khaki Green no 3.

    I only have a limited amount of information in Mike Starmer's NW Europe book but he also publishes three separate guides to the Mediterranean -

    Desert Colours ; The Caunter Scheme 1940 - 41
    Desert Colours ; Alamein & After 1942 - 43
    Middle East Colours ; Sicily and Italy 1943 - 45

    Essential reading for the serious student of camouflage.
     
  4. von Poop

    von Poop Adaministrator Admin

    Owen's talking about this one RH:
    http://www.ww2talk.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=5057&d=1175253947
    I think Rich P's probably right, just a sharper application than usually seen.
    the best pattern of all time was the maltese patern and it looks awesome !
    Yeah sod it, do yours in Maltese Stone!
    You can always paint over it later ;).

    Got an old Almark book(let) on British African schemes, I'll have to have a shufti in there.
     
  5. Rich Payne

    Rich Payne Rivet Counter Patron 1940 Obsessive

    The patterning does fit rather well with the shade provided by the olive trees and the booklet makes reference to the need to make the shadow fit local conditions.

    Bearing in mind that the vehicle would have been delivered in a single colour, it would not seem impossible that there were local variations to reflect the foliage pertaining to the area whilst at the same time following official guidelines.
     
  6. Richard Harrison

    Richard Harrison Senior Member

    anyone any pics of cammo from salerno italy type affair, or Persia ? that would be of great interest to me. especially if it is 5th div ;)
     
  7. The Auck

    The Auck Junior Member

    here is a good example of caunter pattern Owen, i want to use this one on my mk1 but i doubt 5th Div will have used it, even in Qum

    [​IMG]

    this is also a Mk1 carrier with later mods added (wheel on the glacis plate)
    Hi Richard. This carrier is a bit odd. Do you know its history. I suspect what you see are modern alterations and colour scheme. I haven't seen any British carriers with this scheme or these mods like the track section on the front. So I wouldn't use it as an actual example although it does look nice and clean!!
    The Auck
     
  8. Ron Goldstein

    Ron Goldstein WW2 Veteran WW2 Veteran Patron

    The Auk

    The truth is, speaking as someone who lived with these creatures, I don't recognise any of them because they're all too bloody clean ! :)

    Cheers

    Ron
     

    Attached Files:

  9. Richard Harrison

    Richard Harrison Senior Member

    The Auck (Nige is that you...thats your carrier in your avatar as all)

    No buddy the picture came via Kevin Powles on MLU who is searching for paint patterns for his 3" mortar carrier, for those with volume one universal carriers, there is excelent reference to true Caunter pattern on pages 223 and 124 the latter is a picture of an active carrier on Malta.

    as for the pic i provided it looks to me that who ever owns the carrier has had it painted in a coach works, but they have managed to get it all over the track and roadwheels which would stand out like a sore thumb during movement........still looks nice though !

    again if anyone can get cammo references to 5th div in persia, or Italy of which i can distiguish colour or pattern type it would help me greatly, i would like to keep my carrier as close as possible as grandads ;)
     
  10. Richard Harrison

    Richard Harrison Senior Member

    been doing research, if the carrier that was marked up in 56th div markings (its the brown carrier with the black cat logo) this may give me a clue on what my grandads carrier would have looked like, i have established 100% he was 46th div KOYLI landing on Uncle beach at Salerno which according to the books was right along side 56th div. cant wait to get paint on my tub now.
     
  11. Belly

    Belly Engage the enemy more closely

    I have a photos from the NA of the paint schemes for the Siciliy Campaign, none for carriers though...


    http://www.ww2talk.com/forum/picture.php?albumid=202&pictureid=1714

    http://www.ww2talk.com/forum/picture.php?albumid=202&pictureid=1715

    http://www.ww2talk.com/forum/picture.php?albumid=202&pictureid=1716

    http://www.ww2talk.com/forum/picture.php?albumid=202&pictureid=1717

    http://www.ww2talk.com/forum/picture.php?albumid=202&pictureid=1718

    http://www.ww2talk.com/forum/picture.php?albumid=202&pictureid=1719
     
  12. Rich Payne

    Rich Payne Rivet Counter Patron 1940 Obsessive

    Facinating documents Belly. Did you find them by chance ? Have you found any references to paint schemes for other theatres ?
     
  13. Belly

    Belly Engage the enemy more closely

    Its the only document I have.

    It was at the end of a long day at the NA photographing war diaries, I had an hour left and did a random search on Husky and thought the document sounded interesting and it was only small (That's the full document)!!
     
  14. Richard Harrison

    Richard Harrison Senior Member

    right so if i understand correctly those vehicles that were already using desert yellow (light stone) had to add the khaki disruptive as per the shaded areas this works great for me as i have built a model with the exact same colours to see what it looked like... the answer being it looks very cool hahahaha. thanks for posting the document up buddy.
     
  15. Za Rodinu

    Za Rodinu Hot air manufacturer

    Belly, could you be so kind as to transcribe the text in the send image? I can't read it on this monitor, sorry :)

    Thanks in advance!
     
  16. Belly

    Belly Engage the enemy more closely

    I'll try and transcribe later when I have more time, in the mean time here's a bigger version which may help:

    http://www.ww2talk.com/forum/picture.php?albumid=202&pictureid=1731
     
  17. Owen

    Owen -- --- -.. MOD

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