Which Gun Is Better?

Discussion in 'Weapons, Technology & Equipment' started by Hans, May 18, 2005.

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Which gun is better?

  1. M1 Garand

    53.5%
  2. M1A1 Carbine

    9.9%
  3. Thompson

    1.4%
  4. Sten

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  5. Bren

    2.8%
  6. Browning Automatic Rifle

    7.0%
  7. Lee Enfield

    5.6%
  8. Springfield

    16.9%
  9. Grease Gun

    1.4%
  10. Colt .45

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  11. Wel

    1.4%
  1. Karl Anreiter

    Karl Anreiter Discharged

    The best weapon of the war has to be the Stg44, no contest. And why do peole call the MP38/40 the schmeiser? I have always wondered this. It has nothing at all to do with schmeiser, it was designed by erma.


    cheers

    Karl

    (oh and I think the gerry mp3008 is rather sexy, it has the apealing ugliness of the sten, but the convienience of a vertical mag)
     
  2. tankie1rtr

    tankie1rtr Junior Member

    Hi Guys.
    In 1928 the Schmeisser Weapons Company introduced the MP28 that was issued to german police forces, Schmeisser then signed a contract with Bayard to produce and supply weapons the Japan, Spain, South Africa, and China, and it is notable that these same weapons were used during the Spanish Civil war some 10 years later, despite Schmeissers success his company almost went bankrupt a few times. when WW2 broke out Schmeisser had a direct input into the arms production, schmeisser later joined up with Berthold Geipel of ErMA and later designed the MP36 and from this the MP38 and MP40, 1.2 million pieces were manufactured for these weapons and were amongst the first weapons to be manufactured with Die Cast parts, metal stamping and complete machine assembly, this method revolusionized production, allowing production at an unprecedented speed, They became Internationally known as "Schmeisser MP's" mainly due to the straight magazine he patented. hence the name "Schmeissers"
    Regards
    tankie1rtr
     
  3. DuncaninFrance

    DuncaninFrance Junior Member

    No Contest - Lee Enfield No:4 anything else was just a gun!
     
  4. patrick1974

    patrick1974 We will remember them.

    Yep my vote goes to the Lee Enfield the one and only true WW2 rifle:D
     
  5. TonyE

    TonyE Senior Member

    I have been watching this thread with interest, but forgive me if I say it seems totally pointless. What does "better" mean? I would not use a Bren to clear a room and I would not try to lay down suppressive fire at 600 yards with a Sten or M3.

    It is like asking what is the better vegetable, a potato, a pea or a leek?

    Regards
    TonyE
    (feeling curmugeonly)
     
    Bodston and von Poop like this.
  6. Smudger Jnr

    Smudger Jnr Our Man in Berlin

    Tony,

    I take your point, but it is like other questions such as, which was the best aeroplane?.

    It allows people to put their views forward and in doing so a lot of useful information usually emerges-

    Like a lot have said, it is just plain good fun.

    Tom
     
  7. kfz

    kfz Very Senior Member

    I have been watching this thread with interest, but forgive me if I say it seems totally pointless. What does "better" mean? I would not use a Bren to clear a room and I would not try to lay down suppressive fire at 600 yards with a Sten or M3.

    It is like asking what is the better vegetable, a potato, a pea or a leek?

    Regards
    TonyE
    (feeling curmugeonly)

    Tony, thats fine and of course your completly right.

    The idea is that it sparks discussion easly, its presses buttons, strips stuff back to basics. Its just a laugh.

    Kev
     
  8. Union464

    Union464 Member

    The list clearly ought to include Allied medium machine guns if you were to make a complete list of the Western Allies' rifle-calibre small arms: the .303in. Vickers MMG & .30in. Browning M1919 (especially the most-produced model, the .30in. Browning M1919A4). And just as clearly, if you were to really complete the list of small arms of the major belligerents of the Second World War for comparison you ought to have included Soviet, Japanese, and of course, German small arms. German small arms were arguably the best of all the major belligerents, particularly their assault rifles, sub-machine guns, and all-purpose machine guns: it was the German concepts of assault rifles and general-purpose machine guns, and the German designs and production methods of these weapons, that came to decisively influence post-war small arms' design and production throughout the world, as we all know.
     
  9. TonyE

    TonyE Senior Member

    You are absolutely right about German production methods. Just a very small example; look at the press tools needed to produce the trigger guard and grip of an MP43. People often look down on pressed steel weapons, but the technology needed to produce these is far in excess of that required to make a machined piece.

    And OK... I agree these sort of threads get discussion going, but at least limit it to apples and apples, i.e. best bolt action, best LMG etc.

    Regards
    TonyE
     
  10. von Poop

    von Poop Adaministrator Admin

    I always prefer 'favourite' over 'best', the latter being kind of daft, but the former giving more scope for truly subjective opinion/chat.

    Recently read Handrich's 'Sturmgewehr', and I agree about the sheer industrial & technical effort required to produce these pressed components. You kind of think of pressed steel as being flimsy stuff but we're talking thick old lumps of steel formed into surprisingly complex shapes & requiring many processes. However the whole saga reads like another example of Germany pursuing a new(ish) technology at the expense of what was actually possible/sensible with the infrastructure available, a laudable aim in terms of eventual efficiency but pushing things rather to the limit outside of certain firms/experts, and once those firms were unable or unwilling to pursue things (either by dint of allied action or switching to other priorities) there's an awful lot of catching up to be done by other contractors taking on the jobs.
    It can also be said that Russian work on Pressings was the inspiration for the WaA's interest, and they were actually better at it in terms of simplicity & efficiency in materials than the Germans ever achieved.

    As for the Assault rifle being a 'German concept'; that one could run and run... and frequently does. ;)
     
  11. TonyE

    TonyE Senior Member

    As for the Assault rifle being a 'German concept'; that one could run and run... and frequently does. ;)

    ...and has got more legs that a centipede!

    Not that I want to start things off, but I was playing with a 1916 Federov the other day....

    Regards
    TonyE
     
  12. von Poop

    von Poop Adaministrator Admin

    Easy now... :unsure: :D
     
  13. Warlord

    Warlord Veteran wannabe

    Went for the Sten based on looks, because several of this weapons fall in rather different categories.

    By the way, if the Sten, Tommy & Grease Guns are considered, the Schmeisser should also be in the list, together with the Beretta 38/44.
     
  14. Gage

    Gage The Battle of Barking Creek MOD

    Went for the Sten based on looks, because several of this weapons fall in rather different categories.

    By the way, if the Sten, Tommy & Grease Guns are considered, the Schmeisser should also be in the list, together with the Beretta 38/44.

    Always thought the MP40 looked great. Some American soldiers would use the MP40 for house clearing and said there was no better weapon.
     
  15. Nazihunter

    Nazihunter Junior Member

    I think that the m1 Garand is an outstanding weapon because it could work in all weather conditions. and it was reliable.
     
    warhawk likes this.
  16. Za Rodinu

    Za Rodinu Hot air manufacturer

    Ah, yes, the Lee Enfield among others was noted for its lack of a thermal sight so it could not do aimed fire through fog.
     
  17. warhawk

    warhawk Member

    I like the M1A1 carbine. It was for the paratroopers and it was very affective and one of the best next to the M1 garand.



    -Hicks
    It took like 2 or 3 shots to kill someone with the M1 carbine. I might pick the M1 carbine if you give me the 30 round magazine.:unsure: I voted Enfield.
     
  18. Herroberst

    Herroberst Senior Member

    It took like 2 or 3 shots to kill someone with the M1 carbine. I might pick the M1 carbine if you give me the 30 round magazine.:unsure: I voted Enfield.

    :confused:1 shot to the head from an M-1 carbine and the person on the business end won't be moving.



    Hard to compare apples to oranges, hammers to screw drivers. That's quite a tool box to compare. Perhaps bolt action to bolt action or SMG to SMG;)

    Ah, yes, the Lee Enfield among others was noted for its lack of a thermal sight so it could not do aimed fire through fog.

    Well Za then I have the perfect WWII vintage wep for you, The StG-44 mit vampir so you can have as much fun in the dark as you like:) Well I am left in the fog.....LOL
     
  19. spider

    spider Very Senior Member

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mso-fareast-font-family:Calibri; mso-fareast-theme-font:minor-latin; mso-hansi-font-family:Calibri; mso-hansi-theme-font:minor-latin; mso-bidi-font-family:"Times New Roman"; mso-bidi-theme-font:minor-bidi; mso-fareast-language:EN-US;} .MsoChpDefault {mso-style-type:export-only; mso-default-props:yes; mso-ascii-font-family:Calibri; mso-ascii-theme-font:minor-latin; mso-fareast-font-family:Calibri; mso-fareast-theme-font:minor-latin; mso-hansi-font-family:Calibri; mso-hansi-theme-font:minor-latin; mso-bidi-font-family:"Times New Roman"; mso-bidi-theme-font:minor-bidi; mso-fareast-language:EN-US;} .MsoPapDefault {mso-style-type:export-only; margin-bottom:10.0pt; line-height:115%;} @page Section1 {size:595.3pt 841.9pt; margin:72.0pt 72.0pt 72.0pt 72.0pt; mso-header-margin:35.4pt; mso-footer-margin:35.4pt; mso-paper-source:0;} div.Section1 {page:Section1;} --> </style><!--[if gte mso 10]> <style> /* Style Definitions */ table.MsoNormalTable {mso-style-name:"Table Normal"; mso-tstyle-rowband-size:0; mso-tstyle-colband-size:0; mso-style-noshow:yes; mso-style-priority:99; mso-style-qformat:yes; mso-style-parent:""; mso-padding-alt:0cm 5.4pt 0cm 5.4pt; mso-para-margin-top:0cm; mso-para-margin-right:0cm; mso-para-margin-bottom:10.0pt; mso-para-margin-left:0cm; line-height:115%; mso-pagination:widow-orphan; font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"; mso-ascii-font-family:Calibri; mso-ascii-theme-font:minor-latin; mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman"; mso-fareast-theme-font:minor-fareast; mso-hansi-font-family:Calibri; mso-hansi-theme-font:minor-latin;} </style> <![endif]--> [FONT=&quot]Interesting analysis of the Owen SMG from the 6th division diary:
    [/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]Owen sub-machine gun - This weapon proved efficient but, in the present form, has certain defects arising from the design of the safety catch. <o:p></o:p>[/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]These have a tendance to make the gun unsafe for, when the change lever is set to SAFE, the bolt may move sufficiently to the rear to feed and fire a round on its return forward. Accidental discharges have occurred when the bolt was bumped. <o:p></o:p>[/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]With wear, the gun becomes unserviceable and must then be replaced as repairs cannot be satisfactorily carried out.
    [/FONT]
    The Owen has a very good reputation and the weapon of choice for the Australian troops in the Pacific campaigns with few feed magazine problems and stoppages due to its design.
    [FONT=&quot]<o:p></o:p>[/FONT]
     
  20. Drew5233

    Drew5233 #FuturePilot Patron 1940 Obsessive

    I wondered what a Owen Sub Machine Gun was and Digger History cleared it up for me.

    Just incase anyone else wondered
    [​IMG]
     

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