Where was TSCHERENNISNAJA?

Discussion in 'The Eastern Front' started by 2/5 Bn Leicesters, Feb 4, 2011.

  1. 2/5 Bn Leicesters

    2/5 Bn Leicesters Junior Member

    Can anyone tell me where this was? It is contained in a Death Notification for a German Private in early 1944 . I read Ostlicher Kriegsschauplatz as Eastern Front, so hopefully my first post is in the right place.

    Thanks a lot.
    Dave
     
  2. Gerard

    Gerard Seelow/Prora

    Can anyone tell me where this was? It is contained in a Death Notification for a German Private in early 1944 . I read Ostlicher Kriegsschauplatz as Eastern Front, so hopefully my first post is in the right place.

    Thanks a lot.
    Dave
    Hi Dave, A quick Google search drew a blank. Is there any other info relating to this, is it from a particular document, is the soldier's unit included on the info? If we knew the unit then there is a good chance that we may be able to give at least a general idea re location.
     
  3. Vitesse

    Vitesse Senior Member

    Is that from a handwritten or printed source? If it's handwritten, I think the first part is more likely to read "Tschechen" or "Tschechien" which are German for "Czech".
     
  4. Za Rodinu

    Za Rodinu Hot air manufacturer

    That is the German transliteration of some placename in the former USSR. Could be in Russia, Ukraine, any of the Baltic Republics, Moldova, anything. Unfortunately I cannot locate it, though I tried as many permutations as I could think of. And there is no reason to believe the Germans had any complusion to be very accurate with their transliterations...
     
  5. dbf

    dbf Moderatrix MOD

    Dave
    Is there any chance of you scanning the notification and posting it up here?
     
  6. 2/5 Bn Leicesters

    2/5 Bn Leicesters Junior Member

    Thanks for your initial thoughts.

    It is the letter of notification to the father of the soldier, so it is typewritten. I will get a scan and post it in the next few days. No unit, the only other information is that the chap was a Gefreiter.

    Dave
     
  7. Heimbrent

    Heimbrent Well-Known Member

    The problem with germanified Russian words is that usually no rules of transcription are followed (let alone transliteration!) and the word is just written like the writer thought it sounds in German. Any Russian version of the word I tried led to no further results. However, if you can give a clue about the man's unit or about the approximate area where the place is supposed to be, chances are good that it can be found.
     
  8. 2/5 Bn Leicesters

    2/5 Bn Leicesters Junior Member

    This is all I've got - no unit or approximate area, unfortunately. I note in my original post I suggested that he died in 1944, but in fact it was 1943.

    Cheers,
    Dave
     

    Attached Files:

  9. Heimbrent

    Heimbrent Well-Known Member

    The way I see it you have two options, a complicated and very time-consuming (and potentially very unrewarding) one, and a bureaucratic one that might give you the pieces of information you're lacking.
    Nr. 1 would be to cross-check the dates and front line. What might be help is that you know where the soldier came from, i.e. Bottrop, which is Wehrkreis VI. Since the Heer was organised territorially, you could find out what units where formed in that WK and go on from there (but that might not be 100%-ly so). I did some testing on this but after half hour decided it's too much work.

    Nr. 2: Contact the WASt and ask them for further information on the soldier; they'd be able to name his unit, which would be enough info to figure out where that (most certainly misspelled) place is. Just give them the full name and his DOB and if there are no issues with pers. data protection you should be fine.
     
  10. Pete Keane

    Pete Keane Senior Member

    Just been talking to my father-in-law, he speaks/writes Russian.

    He tells me that the name is written in a correct manner ie its an accurate translation from the cyrillic. He has given me the cyrillic original, but it wont work on my keyboard (the first letter looks like a U with a horizontal line under the vertical line !!).

    His suggestion is that villages were completely wiped out during the war, so you would be better looking at a 1930's map than a modern one if it doesnt seem to exist now.

    When he goes home tomorrow he will send it to me in an email and I can copy and paste it here, might help.

    Do we have any Russians onboard?

    Pete
     
  11. Owen

    Owen -- --- -.. MOD

  12. deadb_tch

    deadb_tch the deadliest b#tch ever

    Do we have any Russians onboard?



    Of course, we have!
     
  13. Heimbrent

    Heimbrent Well-Known Member

    That would be either Череннисная or Череннизная, and I found none of these or similar.
    Transliteration would be of help (instead of transcription).

    His suggestion is that villages were completely wiped out during the war, so you would be better looking at a 1930's map than a modern one if it doesnt seem to exist now.


    If you have no clue where the place could be, what sense does it make to search for it on a map, be it modern or 1930ies?

    PS: Cyrillic online keyboard here.
     
  14. RosyRedd

    RosyRedd Senior Member

    Hi - your chap, according to the German War Graves Commission, was buried in Charkow. Would he have been buried near to the site he was killed?

    I've copied the site info, although it doesn't really give you anything new I'm afraid.

    Zum Gedenken an
    Herbert Blaschke
    Herbert Blaschke ruht auf der Kriegsgräberstätte in Charkow.
    Endgrablage: Block 10 Reihe 71 Grab 8447
    Nachname:Blaschke
    Vorname:Herbert
    Dienstgrad:Gefreiter
    Geburtsdatum:04.05.1923
    Todes-/Vermisstendatum:28.03.1943
    Todes-/Vermisstenort: Tscherennisnaja
     
  15. Za Rodinu

    Za Rodinu Hot air manufacturer

    Charkow, more commonly known as Kharkov in these places, given as Kharkiv in it's native Ukraine. Ahhh, the pitfalls!
     
  16. Rav4

    Rav4 Senior Member

    That would be either Череннисная or Череннизная, and I found none of these or similar.
    Transliteration would be of help (instead of transcription).



    If you have no clue where the place could be, what sense does it make to search for it on a map, be it modern or 1930ies?

    PS: Cyrillic online keyboard here.

    My wife is from Ukraine and the closest she can get in English is “Cherenniznaya”. Never heard of it, probably a village somewhere.

    It could mean "darkness".
     
  17. deadb_tch

    deadb_tch the deadliest b#tch ever

    Found downloadable 1914's list of Kharkov region cities list. Will check it for the village name today.
     
  18. 2/5 Bn Leicesters

    2/5 Bn Leicesters Junior Member

    All,
    Thanks a lot for this stuff - I now know where he is buried, even if I don't know exactly where he died.

    Dave
     
  19. Pete Keane

    Pete Keane Senior Member

    This is what came back from my father in law.

    Hi Pete,

    The literal transliteration of the spelling ‘Tscherennisnaja’ would be Цчереннисая

    - but the combination of the first 2 characters plus the double н would seem unlikely to me (but I’m no expert) –

    I would suggest that the spelling ‘Щеренисая’ is more likely though can find nothing on a google search.




    Looks very similar to heimbents version.


    At least you know it is somewhere in the Ukraine now!


    pete
     
  20. Pete Keane

    Pete Keane Senior Member

    Had a quick look in my only Eastern Front book - his death was a copule of weeks after the third battle of Kharkov - died of wounds sustained there?
     

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