Where in the Alps was this photo taken ?

Discussion in 'WW2 Battlefields Today' started by Owen, Oct 8, 2013.

  1. Tom Canning

    Tom Canning WW2 Veteran WW2 Veteran

    Stefan

    Have been back - not to Leizen but close as well as a motor trip from Villach to Vienna stopping at all the other spots and Vienna three times ..but my days of flying are over

    unfortunately as I might need oxygen while up there and the airlines are not too generous with theirs….and it;s a ten hour flight into Vienna - so my annual trips into Europe have now gone

    but the memories are still excellent of my time in Austria...

    Cheers
     
  2. Lindele

    Lindele formerly HA96

    Hi Owen & Tom,

    following is my humble translation:

    Question by me to the Liezen registrar/archivist:
    “The photos only show US and USSR troops, why no British? After all, Liezen in Steiermark (Styria) was British Zone in 1945.“

    Answer:
    “The US troops were the first Allies to reach Liezen coming from the north on 7th May 1945. The USSR troops were first in Niederoesterreich (Lower Austria) and approached Styria via Semmering. They split up in 3 blocks of which one of them arrived in Liezen via the Liesingtal and the Paltental on 11th May 1945. Both troops met on 11th May 1945 including the 2 Generals McBride and Woskrenensky The British arrived later.
    The photos were probably taken on 11th May by Arnold E. Samuelson, but more likely a few days later.
    About the presence of the Allies in Liezen, the following was published by Prof. Dr. Siegfried Beer for the 50 year anniversary of the town Liezen in 1997.
    The occupation of the north western part of Styria followed the process of the military conquest and not the occupation zones as planned in London some time ago (in May 1945 not formally agreed). This would at least partially explain the disinterest and low engagement by the US as well as the distinct willingness to split off this part to the British.
    The military covering of the US controlled region north of the river Enns was mainly the responsibility of the 317th, 318th and 319th regiments of the 80th Infantry Division. The Military Headquarters were already established on 9th May at the Hirschenwirt in Liezen and together with patrolling US soldiers with their Jeeps offered protection to the scared population of Liezen. Still, the nights were eerie and frightening, because of the felt uneasiness that somewhere was hate and rage among the foreign workers (including British and French) still around in Liezen. And the approaching Red Army troops contributed a lot to the negative rumors.
    Unfortunately, none of the US military files of these days could be used to be included in this document, so that the time of the US presence can only be very partially outlined. A lot of the available evidence point in the direction that the US troops varied with every change in tactical moves by the US Headquarters. This means that e.g., the last military US executives in Liezen were part of the 11th Armored Division, redeemed by the 80th Infantry Division on 7th June 1945. So that the last US troops, like the first lot, had only 4 weeks in Liezen, before handing over responsibility to the British 17th/21st Lancers on 9th July. Already on 18th May the internal change of troops in and around Liezen was noticed by the local population. The Liezen - Cronicle of 18th May states:“At 11pm fresh US troops moved in and occupied private houses, mainly from ex-Nazis”.
    The first investigations about the general state of things in the Liezen area were done by a small group of sergeants of the 313th FSS Division established in and around Liezen from 8th until 19th July. The report send to the 3rd Area Security Office responsible for this region proves the consistent efforts of the British to have a high quality picture of the region taken over recently as soon as possible. The US special intelligence corps CIC moved out of the Liezen Region already at the beginning of June, so when the British moved in, they found something like “virgin soil”. The Austrian District Chairman of DAF was still in power on 9th July and a number of key positions in Liezen were still occupied by members of the ex-Nazi Administration. None of the154 local cops had undergone a Nazi check. The provisional Bezirkshauptmann (top civil servant of a region in Austria) Dr. Otto Fuerboeck, a member of the Austrian Freiheitsbewegung (anti-Nazi movement) was in the beginning classified as being popular and capable. The commissioner for justice and security of the Region, Hermann Jungwirth as well as the secretary of the Freiheitsbewegung Josef Angerer were most influential, not the least because of good relations with the Americans. Also, the long term Lord Mayor of Liezen, Ludwig Comai, well regarded by the locals, seemed to be well respected by the British. However, they also sensed the reluctance of the locals to deliver information which was probably due to the still ongoing Nazi atmosphere and concluded that there was still a lot to do in Lienzen – too much of very violently Nazi still around.
    On 20th July the 418th FSS Division took over and Capt. W.C. Allan was the commandant of the headquarters , which moved to Loeben on 24th July with branches in Liezen, Schladming and Groebming. The 418th FSS stayed in Liezen at least until the end of 1947, according to the available files.”

    In addition to this answer, another very detailed report exists with altogether 20 pages. From this report I am adding the list of additional names of the British Officials only, because I believe this may be of general interest. If you have additional specific questions, I can check the 20 page report of possible answers and get back to you.

    Stefan.

    Military Government (MG):
    Maj. G. G. Tweedle ,Capt. H. V. I. Jones (PSO), Capt. Armstrong, Capt. T. P. Hunter, Lt. Eric J. Chalker, Capt. A. W. Greenwood, Maj. E. W. P. Moylan, Capt. Short (PSO), Maj. Archie Wilson
    Military Security (FS) 313. FSS (until 19th July 1945):
    Lt. H. G. De Jong, Sgt. Groome
    418. FSS (from 20th July 1945):
    Capt. W. C. Allan, C. S. M. Riley, Sgt. Allan, Sgt. McEwan, Sgt. Selkirk, Peter Dickson, Maj. Walters
    Military Court (judges):
    Maj. Hutchison, Maj. J. A. Smith, Capt. Venn, Maj. Shiell, Maj. W. E. Allan, Maj. Cozens, Maj. Winney, Maj. McMullen, Maj. J. G. A. Bickford
    Public Prosecutor:
    Sgt. R. Hopwood, Sgt. Humper, Sgt. Bennett
    Administration:
    Capt. J. R. Browning, Capt. Aichison, Sgt. Lacey, H. B. Wright, F.A.U., J. Marley, F.A.U.
     
    dbf and Owen like this.
  3. Tom Canning

    Tom Canning WW2 Veteran WW2 Veteran

    Stefan

    The 17/21st Lancers were of course from 26th Armoured Bde along with 16/5th Lancers and Lothian and Border Horse of 6th Armoured Division which had been held up by the Russians and

    finally Tito at Knittelfeld which caused the hold up before the Russians moved back to the Semmering Pass - which I always thought was their boundary - can't recall anytime in Leizen perhaps that

    was 17/21st Area.

    16/5th stayed around the Knittelfeld area before going back to Tribach- Friesach - Althoven - Strassburg- finally Villach before heeding for Lybia in 1947…..

    see my articles on Strassburg on the BBc series below

    Cheers
     
  4. Ron Goldstein

    Ron Goldstein WW2 Veteran WW2 Veteran

    Attached Files:

  5. Owen

    Owen -- --- -.. MOD

    Thanks for posting that, have been on holiday so only just seen it.
     
  6. Cee

    Cee Senior Member Patron

    A very good write-up by the Registrar and translation by Stefan! On a page devoted to photos of the 80th Infantry Division is a set taken by a local resident that may be of interest.

    "Richard Aigner's aunt took all the photos on a single occasion. The location is main square at Liezen, Austria facing south. The Enns bridge where the meeting with the Russians took place is about a mile further south. "

    Richard Aigner Collection - 80th Infantry Division Photographs

    Regards ...
     
  7. Lindele

    Lindele formerly HA96

    Amazing to see US Military Police and Wehrmacht Police regulating the traffic together.
    I will ask my Registrar friend to comment on this as well as look for the Aigner family of today, may be there is more pics and interesting storys.

    Stefan.
     
  8. Cee

    Cee Senior Member Patron

  9. Owen

    Owen -- --- -.. MOD

    see post #27 ;)
     
  10. Cee

    Cee Senior Member Patron

    Whoops, missed that one ...
     
  11. Lindele

    Lindele formerly HA96

    My registrar friend came back to me about the US Military Police and "Wehrmacht Police" regulating the traffic together.

    The rumor goes, that the mayor of Liezen welcomed the US troops by presenting himself in a Wehrmacht uniform. If not true, at least a good story I thought.

    Stefan.
     
  12. monica

    monica New Member

     
  13. monica

    monica New Member

    Hi, I'm not sure if I'm writing this in the correct space, but I hope whoever posted "Where in the Alps was this photo taken" may get to read my comment. I am particularly interested in 2 gentlemen listed as Military Court Judges: Maj JGA Bickford and Maj Cozens. Can you help me with any further details about them. Thanks very much. Monica
     

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