When research goes wrong !

Discussion in 'Searching for Someone & Military Genealogy' started by Mr Jinks, Mar 5, 2020.

  1. KevinBattle

    KevinBattle Senior Member

    Just sticking my head over the parapet, but what evidence is there that Brian Stanley William Fortune was Ex Service/RSL?
    I'm content that people are attending his funeral, but if he's not even Ex Services, that would be compounding the error.
    Paying respects to an Ex Serviceman who otherwise would have a lonely burial, but compounding the wrong Service record with someone who may not have served, here or in Oz, seems wrong.
    Is there any existing record of WW2 service, or of any service for Brian Stanley William Fortune?
    Presumably it would only be say, 1944 on, or perhaps Korea?
     
  2. CL1

    CL1 116th LAA and 92nd (Loyals) LAA,Royal Artillery Patron

    Hello Skoyen89 apologies if my bile was over the top and upset you.
    As you say with research mistakes are made.
    The simple fact of this one is the poor mans age.
    You would have thought that the age 95 rang a bell to the people who decided on this memorial path.
    It is indeed a noble thing to commemorate a person or persons as I (and other forum members ) do on a daily basis and use this forum to find out and bounce information around before committing to print.
    If I or fellow forum members found a casualty who we believe should be commemorated but did not have the criteria to fit the bill for CWGC and we launched it on social media at each opportunity we would bring the whole process into disrepute with a baying media frenzy.
    This would be disrespectful to the person and solve nothing.

    Quite clearly people have pointed out the age issue

    From the link
    "People are ringing up crying on the phone”

    Hence not only has the research gone wrong people who rely on social media have pushed this along at a pace without thought even though Kyle and Jim have added their expertise.

    Hence my dislike of social media in the hands of the mob which I think I may well have expressed in a strong fashion.




    Lets hope the gentleman can have a proper funeral with the correct facts.


    Regards
    Clive
     
  3. Waddell

    Waddell Well-Known Member

    I do wonder if they were related. It states the following in the ABC news article-

    "He was a British-born World War II veteran and had no known family or next of kin but did have a Department of Veterans' Affairs (DVA) card and talked with nurses about his service".

    It would be interesting to know what information he provided to receive his DVA card.

    Scott
     
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  4. Mr Jinks

    Mr Jinks Bit of a Cad

    Little more to dispell the myth. Burton Fortune and his wife Rose Fortune (Compardo) had twins in Sunderland in early 1947 (The article believes Brian Stanley William Fortune arrived in Australia in 1945) Sadly both children are registered to have died the same year Geoffrey B Fortune and Geraldine R Fortune .

    Kyle

    BMD_B_1947_2_AZ_000563 child births.jpg BMD_D_1947_2_AZ_000312 child deaths.jpg
     
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  5. Tricky Dicky

    Tricky Dicky Don'tre member

    It would be of interest, mainly for reasons of seeing what the actual facts are if as Waddell above says, we could see what details are held on his DVA card, and added to that I would expect there to be something in the Australian archives - perhaps accessible by one of our members to see what details he has for immigration into Australia (I assume there would be records for everyone going i to Oz from way back)
    Theres nothing I can find for him leaving UK on Ancestry. Yes I know it isnt perfect and errors abound, thats why I usually add a note that details need verifying.
    As a prime example of Ancestry errors, in the 1939 Register my father (William born 1918) has been transcribed as Lillian born 1878, but there are usually ways and means around problems like this

    TD
     
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  6. Tricky Dicky

    Tricky Dicky Don'tre member

    Details related to Kyles post


    England & Wales, Civil Registration Birth Index, 1916-2007
    Name: Geoffrey B Fortune
    Registration Date: Apr 1947
    [May 1947]
    [Jun 1947]
    Registration Quarter: Apr-May-Jun
    Registration district: Sunderland
    Inferred County: Tyne & Wear
    Mother's Maiden Name: Compardo
    Volume Number: 1a
    Page Number: 1747

    England & Wales, Civil Registration Death Index, 1916-2007
    Name: Geoffrey B Fortune
    Death Age: 0
    Birth Date: abt 1947
    Registration Date: Apr 1947
    [May 1947]
    [Jun 1947]
    Registration Quarter: Apr-May-Jun
    Registration district: Sunderland
    Inferred County: Durham
    Volume: 1a
    Page: 905


    Birth:
    Name: Geraldine R Fortune
    Registration Date: Apr 1947
    [May 1947]
    [Jun 1947]
    Registration Quarter: Apr-May-Jun
    Registration district: Sunderland
    Inferred County: Tyne & Wear
    Mother's Maiden Name: Compardo
    Volume Number: 1a
    Page Number: 1747

    Death:
    Name: Geraldine R Fortune
    Death Age: 0
    Birth Date: abt 1947
    Registration Date: Apr 1947
    [May 1947]
    [Jun 1947]
    Registration Quarter: Apr-May-Jun
    Registration district: Sunderland
    Inferred County: Durham
    Volume: 1a
    Page: 905

    TD
     
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  7. Tricky Dicky

    Tricky Dicky Don'tre member

    England & Wales, Civil Registration Marriage Index, 1916-2005
    Name: Rose Compardo
    Registration Date: Jan 1938
    [Feb 1938]
    [Mar 1938]
    Registration Quarter: Jan-Feb-Mar
    Registration district: Sunderland
    Inferred County: Durham
    Spouse: Burton Fortune
    Volume Number: 10a
    Page Number: 912

    1939 England and Wales Register
    Name: Rose Fortune
    Gender: Female
    Marital status: Married
    Birth Date: 4 Apr 1914
    Residence Year: 1939
    Address: 28 South Street
    Residence Place: Sunderland, Durham, England
    Occupation: Unpaid Domestic Duties
    Schedule Number: 108
    Sub Schedule Number: 3
    Enumeration District: FDAA
    Registration district: 555-1
    Household Members:
    Name
    Ann Compardo
    Rose Fortune
    Rocco Compardo

    Would suggest she is living (married) with her parents

    Name: Rocco Compardo
    Gender: Male
    Marital status: Married
    Birth Date: 27 Sep 1884
    Residence Year: 1939
    Address: 28 South Street
    Residence Place: Sunderland, Durham, England
    Occupation: Warehouse man & Caretaker (FRUIT VEGETABLES)

    Name: Ann Compardo
    Gender: Female
    Marital status: Married
    Birth Date: 9 Apr 1892
    Residence Year: 1939
    Address: 28 South Street
    Residence Place: Sunderland, Durham, England
    Occupation: Unpaid Domestic Duties

    I cannot find an England & Wales death cert for Rose Fortune (nee Compardo) born 4 Apr 1914 - suggest she may have been elsewhere in the world

    TD
     
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  8. Mr Jinks

    Mr Jinks Bit of a Cad

    I have been told (Jim) that Burton and Rose Compardo lost a third child in 1940 .A boy born May 10th 1940 (Stillborn) Announcement Sunderland Echo and Shipping Gazette 11th June 1940. Lots on Burton Fortune but nothing on Brian?

    fortune no 1.jpeg

    Kyle
     
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  9. CL1

    CL1 116th LAA and 92nd (Loyals) LAA,Royal Artillery Patron

    Brian Fortune, believed to be 94, died on February 11 in the Ipswich Hospital in South East Queensland with no family or loved ones by his side.
    He joined the British Army in 1939, before being injured and captured in France and taken to Nazi-occupied Poland just before the Battle of Dunkirk in May 1940.
    It’s understood Mr Fortune was a prisoner of war for five years, but it’s unclear how or when he came to be in Australia.
    The details for Mr Fortune’s funeral were shared 2000 times and saw veterans and members of the public from Australia and the UK offer to volunteer or attend the service.

    ‘All we wanted to do was help this veteran and it’s just gone viral and we’re so humbled by people’s reactions,’ she said.

    World War II veteran, 95, who tragically died alone will be farewelled by hundreds strangers | | Express Digest
     
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  10. Mr Jinks

    Mr Jinks Bit of a Cad

    Burton Fortune`s father inlaw applied for naturalisation on September 4th 1939 ? Burton`s brother inlaw 4447603 Pte F Compardo (same enlistment book ) also married in 1938. He had a child Frangesco Compardo in Sunderland in 1939 (died in Sunderland 1975) Pte F Compardo was also taken PoW in 1940.(2 DLI Jim). They sound Italian ?

    Kyle
     
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  11. Tullybrone

    Tullybrone Senior Member

    Hi Richard,

    I’ve run Brian Fortune through Australian Archives - no trace in immigration or naturalisation indices - as echoed in quote from Clive’s above post - “it’s unclear how or when he came to be in Australia.”

    Steve
     
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  12. Tricky Dicky

    Tricky Dicky Don'tre member

    Check out the 1939 register details - he fathers name was Rocco Compardo, there is an address there as well that may be identify if there were other Italians living in that area at the time

    TD
     
  13. SDP

    SDP Incurable Cometoholic Patron

    I've been following this thread with interest. Being brutally pragmatic and in deference to the victim in all of this - the poor chap who has died apparently alone in the World - it's clear that there are many unknowns. In that case, surely the only information that's truly relevant relating to his military history is that at the DVA: has no one asked them? ....or have I missed something? That information would then allow the proper story to be told.
     
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  14. Mr Jinks

    Mr Jinks Bit of a Cad

    Hi TD,

    There is but his wife is English (Ann) . Rocco I know is Italian (with German origins) however I added the question mark because it would be a pressumption..and thats what the original researcher did :)
    There were a lot of Italians and Sicilians in Sunderland between the wars . Rocco Compardo was the care taker of Whites Market 28 South Street he died in 1953

    Kyle
     
  15. Mr Jinks

    Mr Jinks Bit of a Cad

    Hi SDP,

    Theres no one listening on the other side of the world . As you say if he has DVA card they would surely hold some facts and the guy died in hospital myou spend an hour giving your details in those places! Pensions/ war pension old age pension ? Why not use the info instead of `assuming` Good one,
    Kyle
     
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  16. Tricky Dicky

    Tricky Dicky Don'tre member

    I had seen that but was unsure whether what I was being told by the system was her real name or not so decided to not upload that info as I felt it might be wrong.
    Still trying to check out Rocco's wife name - as I say the one the system says is right shows she would have originally been from Nottinghamshire

    TD
     
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  17. High Wood

    High Wood Well-Known Member

    Self deleted
     
  18. Mr Jinks

    Mr Jinks Bit of a Cad

    Hi TD

    You probably found this already Rocco Compardo was married in Sunderland in 1911 .
    BMD_M_1911_2_AZ_000196 rocco 1911 married.jpg

    Ann Compardo born 9 Apr 1892 died 1973 Sunderland

    BMD_D_1973_1_AZ_000268 ann death.jpg
    Kyle
     
    Last edited: Mar 7, 2020
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  19. Tricky Dicky

    Tricky Dicky Don'tre member

    England & Wales, Civil Registration Marriage Index, 1837-1915
    Name: Rocco Compardo
    Registration Year: 1911
    Registration Quarter: Apr-May-Jun
    Registration district: Sunderland
    Parishes for this Registration District: View Ecclesiastical Parishes associated with this Registration District
    Inferred County: Durham
    Volume: 10a
    Page: 1331
    Records on Page:
    Name
    Douglas Allan
    Ann B Biggs
    Rocco Compardo
    Mildred H Gunn

    TD
     
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  20. Mr Jinks

    Mr Jinks Bit of a Cad

    TD,

    Theres a tree on Ancestry for Rocco and Ann (Buttery) Biggs but it lacks detail and no children listed theres also reference to Rocco being born in Italy but the 1901 Census gives a surname other than Compardo ( Cooenbordo?)
    Still cannot find anything on Brian Stanley William Fortune if he preferred the name `Stan` (article) perhaps he may be listed under Stanley William Fortune (born 1926 ? ish)

    Kyle
     
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